User talk:Foxwarrior/Celestial Epiphany (3.5e Spell)

Ratings

	Fluffykittens opposes this article and rated it 0 of 4.
	This should be the domain of mindrape and programmed amnesia. Way too strong for 4th level.

Eiji-kun opposes this article and rated it 0 of 4.

Gotta agree qith Qwert, this makes no sense. Why is this on the bard list at all? Even ignoring alignment issues, this speaks of clerics and paladins more than anything. But alignment shifts like this are heavy, this is basically Mindrape (9th level, and generally seen as questionable if not downright morally wrong). The fact this comes at level 4 is bad for that. Ditch the bard, raise the level, and possibly justify the use of mental domination by LG. Right now, ew.

I feel like you should rate Visions of Rebirth, Path of Diabolism, and Turn To The Abyss while you're at it. --Foxwarrior (talk) 05:06, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

My arguements go to those too, this is just the first one I've addressed. Though, the non LG ones don't have the thematic issues of forced alignment change. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 05:17, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

	Qwertyu63 opposes this article and rated it 0 of 4.
	Bards (a class which can not be lawful, I remind you) should not have a spell to make people lawful. A fourth level spell should not change someone's alignment forever against their will (no spell short of 9th level should do that [I would personally say no spell should that, full stop, but that is another matter]).

It might enrage you to know that the Helm of Opposite Alignment is priced lower than an item of a 2nd level spell at will. --Foxwarrior (talk) 05:06, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

As an aside, I feel that's more of a problem with the pricing of 2nd level at will things than the pricing of the helm (the helm's pretty bad though). -- Eiji-kun (talk) 05:17, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Coming back in to state that anyone that cast this spell (or its 3 cousins) in any game I'm DM'ing (not that I would allow it, but details) would instantly and irrevocably become lawful evil. Forcibly changing someones alignment is one of the most evil acts you can do, regardless of what you are changing it to (and yes, this spell pisses me off so much, I came back 4 months later to say this). --Qwertyu63 (talk) 14:22, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

	Franken Kesey dislikes this article and rated it 1 of 4.
	Like the idea of permanently changing an individuals alignment. Dislike the level, and alignment restriction of this spell. Better as one spell at a higher level.