User talk:Dukelzan/Elf, Lost (3.5e Race)

Ratings

Ganteka Future opposes this article and rated it 0 of 4.

While I might be inclined to simply rate this Dislike, given the length of time that it has been on the site and likelihood of any possible future "tweeking" by the author, I'm going with Oppose for the following reasons. The idea of "a race unable to connect to magic in a world filled with magic" isn't a terrible idea, and playing with that concept on elves isn't a terrible choice, but the execution is lacking. The flavor (with all the spelling errors and weird grammar) is uninspired and bland and simply doesn't mesh well. Ideas are thrown in without cohesion and given to make the reader simply have to accept them because that's how it was written. Other weirdness like being between 132 and 138 pounds, but having a height range of almost two feet is just off-putting. Then we get to the mechanics. Now, bland mechanics are fairly common for elves, what with all the racial ability baggage they carry from variant to variant, but this is just inexcusable. It's bland and unbalanced and confusing. This should be taken out of the main navigation since it's basically click-bait for anyone wondering what a lost elf might be. I'd rather not have readers suffer through this. Oppose.

	Ghostwheel opposes this article and rated it 0 of 4.
	"Elves that don't have the natural gift of magic" are called elves who have never taken a level in a class capable of arcane casting. Period. This lacks flavor and gives no real reason why it should be separate from elves. Also, why +1 natural armor? Why do they basically have the equivalent of scales? Sense is not made.

	Eiji-kun dislikes this article and rated it 1 of 4.
	My critique from 2011 stands.

Seems fun to play and is well balanced because they're completely barred from using magic. --GeneralKenobi 2

• Note: This is untrue as they are only unable to do arcane magic. Clerics and druids are just fine here, being Wisdom-based at that. --Ganteka Future (talk) 05:16, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

	Fluffykittens opposes this article and rated it 0 of 4.
	Oh, hey, yet another tragically cursed elven race.

Insane

+4 Dex, +2 Cha, +10 speed, zero downside. What on earth is going on here? Surgo 01:30, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

The stated downside is that they are supposed to lose racial adjustments to spellcasting stats, but the only version that does that is they gray elf. So I definitely agree that this is a wack template, since it really has zero downside for most elf races. - TG Cid 02:25, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

While I understand your guys views of it being really powerful, the Lost Elf loses any mental attribute bonuses from their elf sub-race (I think I have that stated there, but I'll double check). They also push themselves harder then most elf phiscally to make up for their lack of magic. And also look at the standard elf from the Darksun campaign, they can run for up to 8 days straight with high enough Fort. saves without food, water, or rest. And that was from Wizards. Also keep in mind that they can't be any arcane class, period. - Dukelzan

OK, but since very few elf races actually get any bonuses to spellcasting stats (gray elf and drow are the two that come to mind quickly), there really isn't anything lost by that unless this is exlusively for Darksun elves (which I'm not familiar with). If that is in fact the case, it may actually be better off as its own race rather than something that can be applied to any elf.

As far as not being able to take arcane casting levels is concerned, someone would only take this class if they were going for something that is not an arcane class anyway, so once again nothing is lost while you gain a free +2 bonus to Dexterity. There's really no risk as long as you plan your character. - TG Cid 02:41, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Okay, just changed it. They now gain +4 to Dex (so they are more graceful the most elves), but they do still take the hit on Con like the standard elves from the PHB get. - Dukelzan

Here is the problem with your reasoning. You can be be a Fighter, or a Rogue. And take this race. The fact that you don't gain any spellcasting bonuses doesn't matter when you aren't a spellcaster. Surgo 02:53, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

I see your point. I just changed it to where they now have -2 on Cha, because of the feeling of inferiority they get from being raised by a magic wielding race without magic. this gives the Lost Elf +4 to Dex, -2 to Con, and -2 to Cha, witch balance out (in a simple plus/minus sense at least). I don't see how to keep the race a physical one while taking more away from its physical stats. If you have any ideas (assuming the -2 Cha isn't satisfying), I would love to here them. - Dukelzan

+4/-2/-2 actually isn't balanced, from a power standpoint even though it balances numerically. The reasoning is that the higher a bonus gets the more valuable it gets, whic is why a +10 Str/-2 everything else race isn't balanced either. You can still pull a LA 0 race with that but it's inadvised... honestly, haven't taken a look at the race yet, I just wanted to clear up that +4/-2/-2 is not nessicarly equal. Now let's see this race... -- Eiji-kun 01:46, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

UPDATE: And now that I read it, my verdict: LA 1. As before, +4/-2/-2 is an overall plus in spite of it coming out numerically even. Lesse medium... +10 speed is good... +1 nat armor, so overall pushing a +3 AC on average.... and then the Magic Severance.

That is to say, Magic Severance isn't a penalty, or rather it's not a severe penalty. The reasoning goes that, like it or not, races do get pidgeonholed into roles. Yes, you could have an half-orc wizard... but few do because it's a terrible idea. Now that just comes with the territory, races do get designed for certain class concepts in mind. So a obviously rogueish flavored elf here with high dex has a penalty of not being a wizard, which just tells people that they'll be seeing more rogues and monks and less wizards anyway. Not to mention, one Use Magic Device later and they've completely bypassed the penalty anyway. It's a fine flavor device, but it's just flavor.

IMO, there's nothing wrong having this be LA 1. You might be even able to pad it up a bit, add another point of natural armor, maybe add some other flavor power. If you're determined for LA 0, things that could help... another -2 somewhere. Some actual penalty like -1 saves vs arcane magic (which is actually a fairly harsh penalty) as it disrupts their herpa derpa powers, or something of that sort. Good luck. -- Eiji-kun 01:56, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Subrace

Next criticism: I don't really understand why this can't just be an elf subrace. There are other subraces that completely replace the normal elf traits. Surgo 04:03, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

I did mean this more as a race, but it sounds more like a templete when you go through how to make it. I put that on the page (unless someone deleted it). I can make a new page under races if you want me to. Dukelzan

Winter Cleaning Fixes

Hi Dukelan. I saw the winter-cleaning notice on the page, and thought I would convert it over to the right pre-load-based format. You can see it in my sandbox: http://www.dnd-wiki.org/wiki/User:Aelaris/sandbox3

Just copy that over and fill in the remaining sections. I made some names for some abilities, but the rest is just copying stuff over from your 'template' and from the basic elf. You could say that Lost Elves from all races interbred, or you could figure out the slight differences between your elf races, and make extra sections for a Lost Elf of each type. Up to you. Don't forget to fill in all the fluff sections. -- Aelaris 22:57, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Surgo told me to copy it over. Let me know what you think, and fix up all the incomplete bits. -- Aelaris 23:34, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for copying the race format for me. I'm working on filling in the blanks right now. Owe you a LOT. Thanks. --Dukelzan