Talk:Wordcasting (3.5e Variant Rule)

Ratings

	Havvy favors this article and rated it 4 of 4!
	An effects subsystem that allows for the adding of effects that works. While not my flavor of style, this is something that is hard to create an balance. But with the support this has, in the name of classes and prestige classes, this is pretty good. Also, the formatting of the page makes it easy to find what the effect I'm looking for.

Positive Energy Damage from Lyf

I'd assume it would heal like a normal cure spell, but I figure it's worth asking, if only because of Bolt of Glory, which deals Positive Energy Damage, and can hurt living beings.--YX33A 07:08, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

I suppose it was possible that people could be uncertain about that. Changed. --Foxwarrior 20:45, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Oh, and Tungtwist, as it currently stands, would either always fail or always succeed, depending on how the DM sees it. Why? Speak Language check. A impossibility. You can't make a speak language check. It has no assigned ability, because it has no ranks, because you either speak a language or you don't. Thus, Tungtwist is flawed as is. Perhaps a straight INT check would work in its stead, but otherwise, it needs fixing.

Speak Language is a skill, so it has ranks like any other skill. Or, at least, that's how character sheets have always led me to interpret it. An INT check would be horribly wrong, as it wouldn't scale at a 1:1 ratio with level. --Foxwarrior 20:59, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Skill checks don't scale at 1:1 with level due to skill and attribute booster items. If you want it to scale with level, you should probably make it a level check. - Tarkisflux 21:16, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Speak Language doesn't have an attribute, remember? If you want to spend the money and slot to get a skill-booster item for Speak Language, it will be approximately worth the cost, so I don't want to stop you. I suppose I should say that Speak Language scales at 1+:1 with level. --Foxwarrior 21:29, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

It's not a normal skill. You spend one skill point for one language, or two if you don't have it as a class skill. No attribute means no modifier. And since there are absolutely zero times when you need to make a speak language check, you don't have any skill points invested in it for this. Thus, making a speak language check to activate tungtwist either always fails or always succeeds. Maybe a Truespeak check(Tome of Magic, if you're interested), but otherwise it's a logical fallacy. You don't make a check to say "Hello." in Draconic, or Common, or any other language(save for truly magical languages, such as Truespeak, or Dark Speech), you just open your mouth and do that thing you do to make words. Sure, DnD doesn't cover how well you know the language short of "Know it" or "Don't Know it", but that's a good thing in a d20 system. GURPS is designed to allow you to only know enough to ask for a beer in Spanish, if you wish to pay less for it... But the system is point based.--YX33A 23:01, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

I don't really care that it's not a normal skill. What I want is for this to easily be at least equal to your level, and for people who are good at it to be able to speak more languages. I suppose I could say "you must roll equal to or higher than the DC of the spell on 1d20 + the number of languages you know in order to successfully cast it", or something to that effect, although that would make this check a little bit easier. I definitely do not want to use a Truespeak check, since Truespeak serves no other function. --Foxwarrior 00:16, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

So you decide to make a skill, in effect, for one use? I'm with Tarkisflux on the level check idea. Because otherwise you have to crank on a single skill for it to work. Plus, since you don't have to pay for ranks, just languages, you can devote more then one point per level to the skill. And it favors those with high INT scores when starting off, since they get bonus languages. Thus, even if two people gain six languages at level two(assuming they both have the Tungtwist word), the one with 18 INT is automatically better. Unless they aren't human, in which case they get a limited amount of possible bonus languages, and then if you pit a Human against a Elf or Halfling, even if both start with 30 INT, the human wins in this case.

Making it dependent on languages know is almost as useless as making it use a INT check. Only more lopsided.--YX33A 00:26, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

I wasn't arguing against it, I was arguing against it being a 1:1 progression. I don't really care if Fox wants to use it for an unintended use; he's down with skill boosters being applicable and I'm done worrying about it. I'd like you to better explain your argument that you can exceed normal skill point caps in that skill though, since I don't see the logic there. It's unlikely to matter to Fox though, since he's already not worried about skill mod jumps from items. - Tarkisflux 00:32, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Sir

“

Sir: The spell grants each target Spell Resistance equal to your caster level plus 13 for 1 round per instance of Sir.

”

How long does this effect last? --Havvy 19:22, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

I think, if I understand correctly, it lasts 1 round with one instance, two with two, and thus follows this simple progression.

So, Sir Sir Sir would last three rounds. Or trisir, depending on how you say it(and if you have Nonrepetitive Prefixes)--YX33A 19:46, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

YX33A is correct. --Foxwarrior 20:59, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

New Words

Looking for distinct effects here, things to add on that don't step on the toes of other Words, and can add some variety to the mix. Power level of words can be modified, of course, so it's really the concept that matters. As pointed out in the Word Wizard and Word Master classes, effects tend to be simplistic - an effect word that turns people into stone isn't really in the purview of effect words. -- Aelaris 16:37, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Possibilities:

• Tar (effect word) - Short for Target. Hits with a save to negate, if the person fails the save, then the creature is targeted and later effect words have their save DC increased by +(how many words used)x(multiplier?), and touch attacks get a similar bonus to attack rolls. Effect lasts rounds equal to words used, divided among how many targets were hit. Target is additionally always known for purposes of Lob and Vudu? -- Aelaris 16:37, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

• Mum (modifier word) - Short for Mumble. Generally the first word said, the wordcaster may not only mumble Mum, but is then able to mumble softly the rest of verbal components, and gesture vaguely for the somatic components. Folks need a spellcraft check to realize that a spell is being cast, you can actually do it fairly stealthily (not sure if casting spells while sneaking is a move silently check - there's got to be some mathematically balanced method...), and possibly at higher usages, you can cast while unable to do verbal or somatic components properly (gagged (not Silenced), hands tied (not chopped off), etc.) -- Aelaris 16:37, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

I already have Stealth Speaker for talking quietly. Making a target automatically fail all their saves against you is somewhat worrisome; When fighting major enemies with Min or Terr, I suspect that you'd usually want to use Ayl Hexatar on them first, or some similar thing. The always known for Lob and Vudu bit could be amusing, though. --Foxwarrior 21:23, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Stealth Speaker is pretty much everything that Mum is going for, so that works out well. For Tar, the target gets to have a save against the Tar effect, so it's not really a no-save sort of dealie. What it is, however, is the ability to know when it's a good time to invest in a lot of words. So you are basically spending a bunch of words (if you want them to fail the save) so that you can be sure that some other words will have more of an effect. Is ayl Hextar, then ayl hexaci that much better than ayl hexaci then ayl hexiaci? It's basically a risk-management strategy, and good for those Word Wizards to make the most out of the appropriate spell. -- Aelaris 23:35, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Whether Ayl Hextar followed by Ayl Hexaci is better than Ayl Hextar twice is entirely dependent on save probabilities. Tar isn't necessarily a bad word, it's just one of those words that would become almost mandatory to have if it existed (after you've covered all the words necessary for the strategies you like, this one will be the clear best choice, since it gives you a straight boost in power against stronger enemies that you couldn't already kill in one or two rounds), and I'm not entirely sure that managing Tar use is a gameplay mechanic that would make Wordcasting more fun. --Foxwarrior 01:04, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Wordcasting Classes Nav Box

The feat nav box helps greatly. Could you make one for base classes as well as prestige? --Franken Kesey 04:13, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

There aren't enough really for a NavBox for Wordcasting classes. Currently they have a list in the article (and it is also updated automatically). --Havvy 03:22, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Where would one find such a list? --Franken Kesey 06:15, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

To quote the text: Wordcaster: A character whose class or classes give her the potential to wordcast. Current wordcasting classes include: Alchemist, Variant, Divine Word, Word Warrior, Word Wizard, Wordmaster base classes, along with the Inanomancer, Rogue Alchemist, Scriptwriter, State Alchemist, Variant, Word of Lies, Word of Life, Word of Undeath, Wordsman, Xingese Alchemist prestige classes. Caster level is cumulative among wordcasting disciplines. --Havvy 23:59, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Wait a second... You forgot something important!

What if... You wanna cast a spell on yourself? I suppose Hand would work, but still, it's good for using on others as well. A dedicated self target would be a good addition in my opnion.--YX33A 12:24, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Technically you can use any spell (in including wordcasting) on yourself by default.