Talk:Metal Shape (3.5e Spell)

Druid?

Why druid? They don't work with metal, short of repelling it. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 10:53, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Because Druids are the only casters that know this spell. Sorcerers and wizards get fabricate at this spell level, which not only does what this spell does, but affects far more material ( 90 cu feet to metal shape's 14). Grog toad (talk) 22:13, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

"The reason druids have this on their list be because it is on their list."

???...

I don't get it. I was saying it doesn't seem very thematic to what druids do, who work with wood and stone, and reject metal. It's like having a class called "Fire Mage" and then have "Summon Ice Elemental" on their list. Wat. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 23:20, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Sanity is over. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 14:47, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

Franken Kessy isn't active, so... Motion to remove it from the Druid list! Can I get an aye? -- Eiji-kun (talk) 09:51, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

I never really understood the druid's aversion to metal to be honest, since metal is just as much a part of nature as wood and stone are. Preventing druids from wearing steel armour was probably some idea the guys at Wizards had to make the druid a little bit less incredibly powerful. Whatever way it goes I don't really mind this spell being available to druids, but thematically I also sorta get wanting it off the druid spell list, so consider this a sort-of 'aye'. --Sulacu (talk) 10:14, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

Still here. Do not change. This is to help druids from an annoying hindrance. --Franken Kesey 17:41, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

What hindrance is that? -- Eiji-kun (talk) 21:36, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

Das BOOMP. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 01:42, 30 January 2017 (MST)

Come on Eiji. You've never had that moment when you're playing a druid and you see a hunk of metal and think to yourself "I wish I could change that stuff I'm not allowed to use's shape." - Aeturo (talk) 01:57, 30 January 2017 (MST)

That only happened the one time I was playing my paladin and I regretted that I didn't actually know the "Kick Puppy" spell. It would have been so useful! Darn these spells making thematic sense! -- Eiji-kun (talk) 03:14, 30 January 2017 (MST)

→Reverted indentation to one colon

Gotta agree with Eiji on this one. Giving it to druids makes no sense. --Ghostwheel (talk) 03:56, 30 January 2017 (MST)

It'd be more fitting as a version of Warp Wood for Metal objects. Why has no one made a Warp Metal spell yet? --WO whenever

Druids can't use metal armor, but they can use metal weapons. However, metal comes from the earth, thus it's a natural material. The reason Druids can't use as armor it is it's symbolically opposed to the druid's nature - Metal symbolizes the axe that cuts down the tree, the arrow that kills the deer, the soldiers who recklessly destroy nature when they go to war. So, they use it as little as possible to avoid associating themselves with these things, as they are meant to be the opposite of these things, the protectors of the wild.

However, if the Druid made his armor himself - Mining the materials, forging them by hand, cooling the hot metal in blessed oils and consecrating the finished product, vowing never to use it wrongly, i could see it being feasible that a Druid could wear metal armor, perhaps if they forego Wild Shape as a class feature or the feature at least lags behind other druids by like 2 levels.

That said, Druids can still use weapons like repeating crossbows because the guys at WoTC overlooked that. They're not proficient with them but they can still use them without penalty. In 2e, a Druid's weapons all had to be mostly wood or at least partially - A scimitar with a wooden handle, for example.

Thematically, yes it seems weird for a Druid. But in some places, a Druid might be all a town has in the way of a spellcaster. And as I've seen explained in a couple books with Druid characters, mankind are animals in need of protection and guidance too. So a Druid who lives just outside of a small town, acting as a doctor and helping the townsfolk by calling the rain to water the fields and blessing the earth to help the crops grow... Someone like that might have this spell. He may never use it for himself, but shaping metal for the townsfolk to use would be helpful, especially if he teaches the people of the village or whatever not to use it wrongly. Hell, he might even enchant all of it before handing it to the villagers, having sort of an oath on them so they can't be used to hunt for sport alone, or to cut down more trees than are needed.

Saying "This can't be druidic" just because that's not normal for Druids to have is about as silly as making Clerics lose their powers when they use an Arcane magic item. The fact that druids can use metal weapons by canon proves that it's not the metal itself but the symbolism and the way the metal is used - Hence why crystal and deep crystal armor can't be used by druids either. --Zhenra-Khal (talk) 04:48, 10 August 2017 (MDT)

I'd agree with you in 5e, but in 3.5 they made it quite clear druids lose their spellcasting while touching metal arms and armor, and taking that restriction takes the only reason to play the Metal Master variant druid, which wouldn't exist if the regular druid could use metal - Aeturo (talk) 07:27, 10 August 2017 (MDT)

Again, it's a vow violation because the way metal is used is antithetical to everything a druid is. Though, it only says anything about armor and shields, not weapons - And the class has the Scimitar and Sickle in its proficiencies. Though, there's also the Urban Druid to take into consideration, as much as I despise that particular class flavor-wise.

It also depends on the setting and the particular Druid's oaths - If they are Druid to an Earth or Craft deity (Perhaps the Prometheus of the campaign), they might possess such a spell. So I don't think it's nonsensical to have it on the Druid list, despite being something you don't want every Druid using. Besides, people who use these homebrew spells and such generally aren't laying by the vanilla rules anyway. If they wanna use this, they'll tailor it to their needs as they see fit. --Zhenra-Khal (talk) 07:41, 10 August 2017 (MDT)

Salvage

I've begun the salvage operation. I don't mind the X Shape series as it fills a hole in utility, but I have already expressed my feelings on druid being on that list. If I adopt this, druid is coming off. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 02:12, 10 July 2019 (MDT)

I got it. Tried to make a version of it for druids that actually just unshape the metal, I guess? I feel like it should just be two different spells at this point, though. --MadmanFromSpace (talk) 16:23, 21 July 2019 (MDT)