Talk:Living Dead (3.5e Monster)

Not CR 1

Course I can say this with certainty since I fought these, but more important let me address the numbers. Most 1st level characters should have a 50% chance of surviving an attack against one of these things one-on-one. But most 1st level characters have hp between 6-16 hp. A single hit from one of these things one-shots lower HD players and one full attack will kill a high HD player. With a +5 attack, it won't be missing too often (I find AC ranges from 13-16 at first level). Plus it has a fairly high DC disease then the highest Fort save might be no more than a 2-5. I think the biggest issue though is the grapple (as I found out). It will nearly always make the touch AC and a +9 grapple is well beyond anything 1st level can match for a while, so it grapples far more often than it fails. To compare a Str 18, BAB +1 1st level character is only packing a +5 without feats, tricks, and other things. He'll provoke grappling and has to spend an action to do so, while this thing is doing is while it's one-shotting your puny hp.

Running it by my chart, it looks to be somewhere between CR 2 and 3, and I'm inclined to say 3 due to the disease, HD, number of attacks, and so forth.

(Which makes how long my level 1 survived against a SWARM of these things even more epic. That was what, 4 vs 1? So I was fighting a CR 7 encounter.) -- Eiji-kun 00:26, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Yeah I thought that these were a little strong for CR 1, I think I will discard improved grapple and lower the HD by 1. Stay tuned.

I kinda feel like if your AC is that bad at level 1, you're kind of asking for trouble in the first place if you're in a position to let these things hit you. A fighter (or any heavy armor-capable melee character at that level) can get 21 AC with a shield, full plate, Dex, etc. A wizard's probably lower, 12 or 14 without shield or mage armor maybe bumping him up a bit. But, of course, he's a wizard and shouldn't be attacked anyway. Ditto for any other ranged character.

That said, the pestilent ability is the thing that jumps out the most to me. As potentially helpful as Improved Grab is, their grapple check is on the "OK, but not great" side. That said, if they do win, Pestilent has a solid chance to nauseate the foe for the duration of the foreseeable encounter. That's more dicy to me than just about anything else, especially when they already carry diseases (as unhelpful as they admittedly are). - TG Cid 02:26, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

They can't nauseate you, only sicken you.--Leziad 02:31, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

If they are CR 1, it'd be really nice if they had only 1 HD. --Havvy 23:21, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Why? HD is not equal to CR. --Leziad 09:41, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

I also prefer MLET when possible. It's just so nice and clean when they match. -- 10:45, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

I don't think it relevant unless it a powerful type like outsider. --Leziad 10:54, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Fighters can't afford full plate at level 1. They can only afford it by level 3, or 4 if you go by the "Can't buy something that is worth more than half your WBL". --TK-Squared 15:33, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

These monsters have twice the turn undead resistance as an undead with one hit die. Should you be facing an apocalypse of living dead, those turning levels because very useful really quickly. --Havvy 16:14, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

@TK: The actual wealth guidelines in the DMG say that your two most expensive items together shouldn't be worth more than 1/2 your total gold, so even at that level they sometimes can't pick it up according to DMG guidelines :-O --Ghostwheel 19:17, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Havvy... it not a undead. It can't be turned or rebuked anyway. --Leziad 20:37, 4 September 2011 (UTC)