Talk:Hatchet Hands (3.5e Feat)

Rules Text?

" and you can make Sunder attacks unarmed"

Could you not before? You do you imply you don't provoke for sunders? -- Eiji-kun (talk) 14:53, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

I'm sorry to tell you that the rules for Sundering say you have to use a Slashing or Bludgeoning weapon, and unarmed attacks aren't weapons? I guess I was covering my bases there a bit. --Foxwarrior (talk) 07:41, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Slashing and bludgeoning, sure, but unarmed strikes aren't weapons? They seem to be weapons, of both the natural and maneufactured sort. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 08:02, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Can you quote the rules for that? --Foxwarrior (talk) 08:22, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Sure, lesse... for unarmed strikes, per monk...

Unarmed Strike: At 1st level, a monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat... yada yada skip a bit ...A monk’s unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons. Super-strict RAW might say "that's only for enhancement", but super strict RAW also says monk's aren't proficient in their unarmed strike either.

But then for natural weapons...

Well that one is a not-rule. It doesn't say their weapons, but it doesn't say they aren't weapons either. Given that they have all the properties of weapons, can use various combat maneuvers via either ability (improved grab) or feat (improved sunder, note the lack of maneufacted weapons on this one), and have "weapons" in the name... I'm gonna say they're weapons. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 08:35, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

But wait, what does the Natural Weapons page say? "A creature making a melee attack with a natural weapon is considered armed and does not provoke attacks of opportunity." Clearly normal non-Monk unarmed attacks can't be natural weapons, or they wouldn't provoke attacks of opportunity! --Foxwarrior (talk) 09:17, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Right, without the feat Unarmed Attacks provoke.... ooooh, I see the problem here. Here I was presuming all this time that you would logically have some manner of unarmed strike, but it's not a pre-req so in theory someone without the feat or monk ability could get in. A terrible idea seeing as the feat requires a bunch of punching, but there's that. ....hmmm, make it require Improved Unarmed Strike? It's not like someone will take this feat but lack the logical counterpart. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 09:20, 20 December 2013 (UTC)