Talk:Grenadier (3.5e Class)

Bombs

Nowhere is it written whether bombs are a ranged attack or a ranged touch attack. That said, with full BAB I'd peg it as a ranged attack, otherwise I'd put it down to Medium BAB and have it be a ranged touch attack. --Ghostwheel (talk) 17:29, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

Also, using single-target 6th-level spells on an entire party (Potion Bomb + Improved Potion) seems a bit too powerful for High-level campaigns. Heck, imagine Displacement (only a 3rd-level spell) with Potion Bomb and you get some fairly wacky results. --Ghostwheel (talk) 17:34, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

Bombs are considered splash weapons with some exceptions, as noted in their description; And splash weapons are normally ranged touch attacks. Also, yes. It is pretty powerful; But, it isn't free, and they have to choose between buffing their party, or using a magic item AND one of their daily bombs. Would you suggest rather than full duration, the potion bomb, in the event that the Grenadier decides to give up the damage of the bomb entirely, gives only half normal duration? Perhaps the duration is divided up between a number of targets equal to the Grenadier's Intelligence modifier? Or what might you suggest? Alchemist - The main inspiration for this - Gets up to 6th level spells in the form of extracts they (and only thy) can drink, created at no cost; And with a Discovery, they can share these extracts with their allies. It can also create healing bombs that create a healing spell's effect rather than damage. Also, in order to not fry their companions with the same bomb that buffed them, they'd need to take Precise Bombs as well, which means narrowing down their build a bit. They only get ten Tricks, and I can easily see part of those being dedicated to Fighter feats rather than Discoveries.Zhenra-Khal (talk) 17:55, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

On a side note, Potion Bomb + Fast Bombs + Improved Potion + Alchemical Admixture: Imbued Resistance Bomb is a bit of a ridiculous way to buff the entire party with everything they could need, in a single round. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zhenra-Khal (talk • contribs) at

(EDIT CONFLICT) With crafting, wealth is a river, so it's not too relevant. Furthermore those spells are game-changers, and if you wanted to keep it, I'd make it so that the max duration is equal to the character's Intelligence modifier (in rounds, minutes, or whatever else the potion's base duration is in), divided among the participants as the Alche--err, Grenadier wishes. With how powerful discoveries are, I'm not sure any Int-based character would prefer to go for fighter feats. --Ghostwheel (talk) 18:04, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

Yes, doesn't that seem a bit too powerful for High-tier games? You're putting the god-wizard out of business :-P --Ghostwheel (talk) 18:05, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

Sorry for the edit conflict. I think I'll put it at a number of rounds equal to the Int mod + the number of damage dice sacrificed, divided among the target (Since Int divided would actually lower the duration by giving up the bomb's damage; And it's designed so the Precise Bombs can be used to in-battle heal with bombs while still dealing damage). But, with things like Improved Critical available to bombs, and the TWF feat chain + Fast Bombs, I think there is room for those who want those feats. But, I thank you for pointing that out; I didn't really realize the uberbuff issue until you mentioned it and it must be fixed promptly.

Yep, no probs :-) While Fast Bombs, Rapid Shot, the TWF chain and Precise Shot will be very strong, I don't think Improved Critical will be so much, since they're 20/x2.

If inspired, I may make a Grimoire variant in the future, since I have a fetish for encounter-based recharge style resource systems :-P

EDIT: That said, throwing down a half-dozen spell-laden buffs on your entire party in the space of a single round still sounds a bit too powerful. Maybe make potion bomb once per round? --Ghostwheel (talk) 18:23, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

By all means, feel free.~ As for the bombs, one bomb per round makes sense - Fix that merely by removing the Fast Bombs discovery; Or make it once every 1d4 rounds. Perhaps if they use Potion Bomb, it can't be used again until the duration of the original is up or the old buff dies. Ooooohhh I like that... *Scribbles notes*. Also, I did make some fighter bonus feats that can be taken (I just linked them in the Tricks description) specifically for the Tricks, which, while they aren't as powerful as the discoveries, are useful, particularly for multiclassed Grenadiers, Grenade Adepts or those who chose the bombs ability via the Grenadier Dabbling (3.5e Feat). Zhenra-Khal (talk) 18:29, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

I would do the same thing for the strong status-effect spells. For example, Confusion, Bestow Curse, etc, should only be able to be used once per round--or, alternatively, make enemies who succeed on their save immune to the effects of the bomb discovery for 24 hours or somesuch. That would also work, since pelting the BBEG with 5 bombs to get them to be cursed is a bit much. --Ghostwheel (talk) 18:37, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

Also, if you make bomb-centric feats, you might want to put them all under a specific category. --Ghostwheel (talk) 18:37, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

(Indent reset) That makes sense, though it's a bit odd to think of someone making a potion of Bestow Curse. I'm not sure that's possible via RAW, but I can see it. Perhaps making them and selling them off under the guise of potions of beneficial sort, or as poisons. Hmmm... And yes, I'm currently working on the new feat type. Not sure how to format it, but hurrah for being able to see how others did it. Zhenra-Khal (talk) 18:50, 28 October 2016 (UTC)