Talk:Godling (3.5e Prestige Class)

Rating

	Franken Kesey likes this article and rated it 3 of 4.
	After seeing many attempts at making god classes, this is by far the most balanced (and there are many on this wiki). This also allows other classes to partake in the party. Keeping from undoing the party dynamic. The main reason that this is not a higher rating is due to godlings' limited capacity to alter their own plane.

Just starting this page

Any comments are invited. --Qwertyu63 (talk) 15:04, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

Assuming the rules about hiring wizards to do your dirty work are still in effect (that services price), this seems to actually be a Moderate balance deity. Neat. --174.61.170.65 16:27, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

Comments

Franken Kesey's Comments

Numbered for referencing later:

1)Requirements:

• a. ability score requirements for prestige classes are not advised in 3.5;
• b. the ability score requirement is very low (either raise it to 24 or drop it);
• c. would like to see a spell or spell-like ability requirement (seems appropriate noting this is mostly a spell caster). Example: “Must be able to cast a 4th-level spell.” Or “Must be able to cast a 4th-level spell in the X school.”

2)Class Features (of previous class): this advances class features in non-spellcasting classes as well, correct?

3)Divine Spark. Looks like it does a few things: 1) you can give people the ability to cast specific spells, 2) you can influence how creatures act when using your spells, 3) gives you proficiency in a single weapon, and 4) become immune to poison, disease and aging.

• a. 1-2 domains to start out, strongly suggest against having any more. However, godlings could gain another domain every four levels.
• b. a boost in your chosen weapon would be nice, perhaps +2 to attack and damage every four levels.

4)Worshipers:

• a. Needs more progression in general, especially with the number of churches and the cleric (example: “godlings gain 3 churches every 5 levels, and the cleric is four levels below the godling).

5)Divine Gift: this is perfect. And commend you for it!

6)Sanctify Relic: No issue with this, might want to mention this in Divine Spark, or it could be a sub-feature of Divine Spark.

7)Worshipers Tribute:

• a. Needs to be a subsection of Worshipers.
• b. all the abilities of this feature seam very Elothareque: a feature that gives items instead of abilities.
• c. With all the other cool things in this prestige class, you might consider removing this feature all together (instead improving the normal Worshipers feature).

8)Devine Realm:

• a. might want to add gravity, time and magical properties, as well as if the plane has an alignment (see About Planes).
• b. can a godling alter a part of the plane (i.e., move a hill) without harming structures away from the alteration?
• c. Can you bring creatures or objects (and how much) with you when you teleport to your plane?
• d. the demi-plane seams very small, better if it could hold a population.

9)Acendant: if following the mentality of this page, divine level looks to be the overall purpose. Divine level 0 might be something to consider, but look into it more before implementing.

Above are some general comments. Will begin looking into your other work. Thank you again for your review of my works.--Franken Kesey (talk) 18:29, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

---

I'll go down the line here.

1: Requirements

I know ability score requirements tend to be avoided, but that was the best way I could find to be the limit I wanted.

18 was chosen because that is the highest you can get during normal character creation.

The lack of any casting requirement is intended. Anyone who has a good score can get in.

2: Class Features

Right, it advances the features of any past class. It's like the uncanny trickster.

3: Divine Spark

You seem to be reading this one a bit wrong. It does the following:

• Makes you a valid choice for clerics (and other such classes) to get their spells from.
• Lets you pick domains that those Clerics can pick from for their domains.
• Lets you pick a favored weapon, for the War domain and for Favored Souls. (It doesn't give you any bonuses or even proficiency with that weapon)
• Give you immunity to age/poison/disease.

4: Worshipers

I intentionally held back on this ability some, in order to make it not too strong. But more churches per level could work.

5: Divine Gift

Thank you.

6: Sanctify Relic

It is supposed to be separate from the divine spark feature.

7: Worshipers Tribute

Why would this be a part of the Worshipers feature?... I see what you mean, kind of. This feature represents your influence spreading, and your church growing in power.

8: Divine Realm

A: All of that was done in one line of text- "The planar traits of this plane match your home plane."

B: Unless they put it there manually, there is no hill. And if they want it moved, they have to do it manually.

C: As per the spell Plan Shift, they can take up to 7 others with them.

D: The place grows bigger the more souls show up, and also when you gain more godling levels. If my math was right (I don't have the math anymore), it should grow fast enough.

9: Ascend

I thought of Divine Rank 0, but reading over what it gives, I decided not to use it.

Thank you for looking over this. --Qwertyu63 (talk) 19:00, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

1)Requirements: You should be able to get 21 at first level (with a +2 racial bonus +1 at first); at 7th level (minimum level to take this class) max would be 22. Still do not know why magical tomes and manuals cannot be used for requirements.

3)Then 3 domains is too many at 1st level. Two at first, then +1 every 3 levels after sounds better.

4) Meant three churches at 1st level, then +3 every 4-5 levels. Starting with 10 is a lot.

7)All features improve Worship, thus less features are easier on the eyes. (You could still select from a list this way.)

8)

a.Godlings cannot change planer traits (that are unlisted) – to improve upon what they learned from their home plane?

b. I see, they have no control over topography.

d. At 10th level, the demi-plane would be 700’+5/soul. If we assume 25 converts die each level (well aware this is an assumption), the demi-plane would still be less than half a mile from one end to the other. Not as small as the regular genesis, but still disappointing.

9) Agreed, divine rank can be overpowered. Perhaps, then, a few more abilities in the capstone.--Franken Kesey (talk) 19:41, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

Tark's Comments

• While I agree that attribute minimums are weird in PrCs, I don't think it's a big deal here. And I wouldn't boost it either, because it just means that some races have an easier time becoming a godling than others.
• The Worshipers class feature's ability to spontaneously generate clerics and their replacements is interesting, as is the level up after a year thing. It feels entirely arbitrary and like you'd level it out of relevance without scaling in some fashion, but I'm not really sure what sort of scaling to suggest for an M balance class. Maybe start at 1, gain a level after current level / 2 years? Whether you adopt something more advanced than 2 levels after a year or not, you may want to cap the clerics levels at your character level - 4 or tie it to the city size in some way to avoid adventures in a temple city with replaceable clerics near your level. If you do scale it, you might also want to scale up the assistance they can offer you, which works to make the class feature more relevant at higher levels.
• Divine Gift isn't very even.

• Instantaneous minor creation is permanent non-dispellable minor creation and thus covers all of almost everything you ever want again, so it's probably too good for a Moderate balance class.
• Alter self at will is probably too good for an M class, and could be disguise self instead.
• Divine life seems fine actually, though you could do a couple more uses of cure mod if you wanted.
• 1/day 1st level warrior is probably too useless for an M class, and should probably scale in some way (like your character level -2, because it's a warrior and not a real class) if you don't want to do something more complex. Could also have a couple more uses per day probably.
• +6 bonus to a few skills you may not even have doesn't seem useful enough in an M game. Could just give them ranks in those three skills equal to their character level +3, and let them move any ranks they had in them already. Keep the +6 on top if you want to, it's really not a big deal.
• Commanding voice may as well be at-will if you're offering up at-will disguise self (another 1st level spell). Or even 1/minute or something. The DC boost is nice when you get it but likely to be outgrown by later in the class, which is pretty standard for M classes.
• Lightning bolt seems ok.

• Is there a reason relics have to be weapons and can't be any hand held item? You wouldn't get the weapon bonus, but since there doesn't seem to be a limit on relics created, carried, or used it might be nice to put non-combat domain spells in non-weapon items. Holy symbol of cure light wounds and whatnot.
• The Tributes seem reasonable, though subject to my same scaling concerns as the base worshiper ability.
• Domain Control - just a thought, but would it mess things up if they could swap their active domains with some downtime, reselecting them up to their current limit? And how does this interact with a cleric who is their own spell source?
• Divine realm doesn't really fit with standard planar cosmology, which has demi planes on the ethereal but gods out in the infinite outer planes. Is there a reason you went with that instead of just giving them a growing patch of land on an existing infinite plane?
• True Prayer works well for you calling your guys to keep in touch, but it gives your clerics a power that normal clerics don't have. And that's kind of weird.
• Is call the fallen a reference to petitioners? If so, why not just link it, SRD:Petitioner, and save some space? Also, you becoming your own petitioner is really weird and should probably be changed to you just being trapped in your plane and unable to leave (since you don't have avatars) or raise yourself.
• Divine call has the same scaling problems as the other class features. I don't know why getting two 3rd level guys who can't leave to help me matters when you're at least level 13.
• Ascend seems pretty reasonable.

Going down the line once again. (Skipping ones where I have nothing to say)

• Skipping
• Woah, you made me realize an error in this part. The "level up after 1 year" is only meant to happen once per cleric. The idea being their level caps at level 9 (Start at 3+2 from 1 year+2 from Tribute+2 from Ascend.) Also, I will be adding in the number of churches scaling (just haven't typed it yet).
• So nerf Creation, nerf Alter Self, leave or buff Life, buff Call, buff Sight, buff Command, and leave Bolt. OK, I see what you mean.
• There is a limit on the number of relics created. A given godling can only have 1 in existence at a time. I used to have this big long thing typed up that had you picking from a list of possible base relics (weapons, armor, tools, etc), and then adding on a spell, but it was too long and complex (almost as long as the rest of the class combined).
• I'm going to be scaling the base. Moving on.
• Well then. Guess who has never read up on the planar cosmology. I'll move it out there. I'm leaving it a separate plane because of reasons.
• True Prayer is just meant to give a rules basis to clerics praying to their gods. I imagine that most gods can just choose to hear what their clerics are saying.
• On Call the Fallen, you are dead on what I meant. I avoided the petitioner template because it isn't what I wanted. As for you winding up there, that was the fastest way I could think of to get you there. Your method should work though.
• To put it bluntly, they are the managers for the afterlife you have to start putting together in the next level. They do the busy-work while you are gone.
• And thank you.

Thank you for all of your comments. I will be working on them now.--Qwertyu63 (talk) 12:19, 7 August 2013 (UTC)