Talk:CR-Based Turning (3.5e Variant Rule)

Ratings

	Ganteka Future likes this article and rated it 3 of 4.
	This is a decent fix/patch that's easy to understand and implement. Recommended over the default system.

	DanielDraco likes this article and rated it 3 of 4.
	This is the way it always should have been, so it deserves an upvote. But it also makes it a rather obvious set of changes, so I'm not gonna give it 4/4.

Turn Resistance

Turn Resistance really seems to me like WotC's spot fix for powerful undead having few hit dice. With this rule, such a spot fix is redundant. --Foxwarrior 03:20, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Updated since this comment. Surgo 04:17, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

As you've written this, I'll have to change Turn Resistance values for all npcs, reducing them by half. Wouldn't it be easier to not re-write TR rules at all, and just let the HD added by TR adjust the CR the way it normally works? For undead you add +1 CR per +4 HD. Yeah, that makes it half as strong as you wrote it, but it's still easier to add the sentence "It takes 2 additional HD to increase an undead creature's CR by +1 for the purposes of being turned" than it is to change all undead creatures. Bihlbo (talk) 16:13, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

I don't quite understand the benefit of what you're proposing. Now you just quarter turn resistance instead of halving it -- you still need to make a calculation. What's the difference? Surgo (talk) 16:18, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Turning Damage

Turning damage was a bit underwhelming at higher levels, and remains so here. 2d6 + level + Cha Mod is a bunch of 1 CR creatures at level 1, and maybe 2 CR 20 creatures at level 20. With your other changes, it might make sense to move to a "number affected" or EL style damage roll. In a "number affected" setup, you could affect 2d6 + cha mod creatures, and trade 1 of those at the CR of your check for 2 of them at CR -2, and so on. - Tarkisflux ^Talk 05:53, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Let's take a high-level example at level 15... 2d6 + 10 + 15 = 32 on average. That's not too bad, you can effectively shut down 2 enemies of your level (or tons of small ones) without too much trouble, which, for a class ability, ain't bad at all. --Ghostwheel 06:12, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Depending on intended balance, that's either meh (since it's type and daily restricted) or decent. It's also substantially worse than it starts, so if you want them to only get 2 or 3 guys with it in general then it's too strong on the bottom end and needs to be toned down there instead. And it doesn't stay that good, since by level 20 your damage is closer to 38 and only 1 enemy of your level on average, and you're not in "ain't bad at all" land anymore. I'm honestly a lot less concerned with getting a bunch of targets than I am with getting something consistent that scales in a not idiotic fashion; I can always bring the target values up or down to hit the intended balance of a game. - Tarkisflux ^Talk 06:48, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Alternate thought - don't roll the damage at all, just use the CR determined by your check as the EL worth of undead that you turn. - Tarkisflux ^Talk 06:53, 27 July 2012 (UTC)