Talk:Burst Through (3.5e Feat)

Ratings

	Spanambula is neutral on this article and rated it 2 of 4.
	Okay, the feat has been changed to VH balance and I'm changing my dislike to a neutral like I said I would. The damage output is still egregious, and there is no way I would allow this in any of my games, but there you go.

I'm not sure it's entirely clear that it doesn't still knock the target prone. --Foxwarrior (talk) 06:43, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

Considering how hyperdetailed everything else is, the prone effect should be made more explicit. Even then, I fail to see why anyone would willingly spend a feat on something that hurts themselves. Spanambula (talk) 07:38, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

It's an overrun. It still knocks the target prone. --Luigifan18 (talk) 15:42, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

It's not an overrun, it's a 'crashing attack' per your wording which you have defined as just dealing damage. If you want that to mean an overrun that also deals damage, you can just write that without declaring it a new thing. Example wording: "When you initiate an overrun attack, you may augment it such that you deal damage to the defender in the blocking phase of the overrun." - Tarkisflux ^Talk 15:51, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

"Crashing attack" is just a term I made up for ease of reference; it still counts as an overrun, so I changed up the wording to make that clearer. I also reduced the self-damage and increased the damage to 1d12+size modifier per HD (instead of per 2 HD as it was before). I'm still aiming for this to be the same balance level as Spring Attack, though; is that too much? --Luigifan18 (talk) 13:59, 4 October 2014 (UTC)

As Spring Attack is Moderate, yes, 1d12 per HD is huge. Making it 1d6 per 2 levels might put it on the same level as Spring Attack. --Ghostwheel (talk) 14:26, 4 October 2014 (UTC)

What, really Luigifan? Spring attack?!? What you have here is so much better than spring attack, I don't even... In what universe is "deal multiple dice of damage based on your hit dice and size, likely killing or heavily wounding your target" in any way comparable to being able to finish your move after you take a normal attack via spring attack? Even Ghost's suggestion is a bit on the high side IMO. If you want this to be on the same level as spring attack, you want something like "you may make an attack against your overrun target" and that's it. No size based weirdness (other than that built into the creatures' rolls). Nothing scaling with hit dice or BAB. Just an attack, probably at the same time as they're making their AoO against you as part of the overrun. That's it.- Tarkisflux ^Talk 20:53, 4 October 2014 (UTC)

Didn't this used to be 1d12 per 2 HD? You do realize there are a lot of monsters in the game that have HD far in excess of their CR, and many of them have high Strength scores. Any of them with this feat would likely run a significant risk of one-shotting a PC. But even on a PC, this is insane. At 10th level a fighter with powerful build now has a 10d12+10d6 at-will attack. Oh, someone cast "Enlarge Person" on you too? 10d12+20d6. That's ~135 average damage. Spanambula (talk) 10:57, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

Well, the reason I even made this feat comes back to two monsters I made... well, didn't quite make... I adapted Raikou and Entei to D&D. I gave Raikou Spring Attack, and wanted to give Entei and Suicune similar feat chains that suited them. Entei had Improved Overrun (because, like Raikou, it runs a lot, but it's also physically stronger and I wanted to have it running through adversaries rather than leaping over them), but the only feat I could find with Improved Overrun as a prerequisite was Barreling Charge, which had additional prerequisites that would have required me to substantially reorganize Entei's feats. So I decided to make my own. --Luigifan18 (talk) 02:39, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

So... you made your own that didn't do what you actually wanted it to do with the running through adversaries? And in the process made something that deals ridiculous damage? I don't follow that progression, at all.

You know that you can ignore prereqs if you give a feat as a bonus feat right? Just drop a {{B}} on it to mark it with a ^B and it's all good (with respect to creation rules anyway). - Tarkisflux ^Talk 03:50, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

Or, since part of the monster's concept is that it charges through other creatures' spaces and deals damage, you could just give them trample. Or give them an improved version of trample that deals extra damage. Then it would just be an Ex ability, you don't have to waste a feat on it, and everyone's happy. Spanambula (talk) 06:35, 6 October 2014 (UTC)