Talk:Better Counterspelling (3.5e Variant Rule)

Playtesting Note

Ghostwheel had the following idea in chat:

<Ghostwheel> Could be *noddish* Perhaps make it a CL check, both sides getting a bonus equal to 2x the spell level spent? <Ghostwheel> That way duskblades can be decent too, even with lower-level spells

I think right now that's making it too hard for the attacker as they already have to draw line of effect through them in the first place and hit the spell with the attack of opportunity, but it might be an appropriate idea. That's something whose answer will come out in playtesting. Surgo 16:19, July 4, 2010 (UTC)

Decent? That's +20+10 vs. +20+18 we're talking about as a baseline case. If it was plus one time the spell level, it could work.

Either way works, but without that doubling you'll notice that the only difference between a sixth-level spell being countered by a first-level spell is only +5 against being countered. I personally don't think you should be able to counter a sixth-level spell with a first-level spell, period, especially with how wide the RNG is on opposed checks (1-20 rather than 1-10 when using set DCs). --Ghostwheel 20:27, July 4, 2010 (UTC)

That basically means duskblades (level 5) shouldn't pretend to be able to counter anyone else (level 9) - it's a difference only 1 level smaller than the one that "ought to be entirely insurmountable".

Dispel Action

Does dispel use an AoO and an immediate action, or just the immediate? - TarkisFlux 22:37, July 16, 2010 (UTC)

Just immediate. Surgo 01:24, July 17, 2010 (UTC)

New Feat

I like these rules, so I made a new feat for them. It's not scaling, but I think it's a pretty solid one anyway. Feel free to make suggestions, including "that sucks, and you should get rid of it". It's your subsystem after all. - TarkisFlux 00:30, July 18, 2010 (UTC)

Issues

I have some issues with this method of counterspelling:

• The bigger you are, the better you are at placing yourself to counter spells.
• Wielding a reach weapon makes you better at counterspelling.
• Attack rolls usually quickly outpace DCs.
  • Level 20 clerics should easily be able to have full BAB + 10 str + 5 magic weapon, which shuts down casters with +2 DCs from feats and a +14 ability modifier.

It's a cool idea, but it seems to have some weird flavor and possibly poor mechanics at high levels. --Andrew Arnott (talk, email) 22:06, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

Looking this over again, I'm actually a bit worried about BAB outpacing DC and wonder if there's another way this can be handled instead of by BAB. Surgo (talk) 14:32, 2 September 2017 (MDT)

Ratings

	Ghostwheel likes this article and rated it 3 of 4.
	What others have said.

	Tarkisflux favors this article and rated it 4 of 4!
	Normal counterspelling, not so great. This is a vast improvement. I liked it so much, I wrote supplementary material even.

	Luigifan18 favors this article and rated it 4 of 4!
	Very, very nice! Counterspelling was rather impractical before, but this makes it something that can be done without having to think too much about it.

	Undead Knave likes this article and rated it 3 of 4.
	This looks like it would drastically help counterspelling options. That's a good thing, seeing as counterspelling seems like it could be really cool.

Foxwarrior likes this article and rated it 3 of 4.

Counterspelling gets a lot stronger, but that's okay because it was extremely weak before. Requiring line of effect to pass through their magical reach is a nice touch which makes caster placement tactically interesting. Makes trading SoDs take longer in a thematically wizard battle sort of way. Dispel magic becomes one of the strongest spells in the game. The only worry, I guess, is that it gets stronger enough that you very much have to want it for this variant rule to be a good idea. It also tilts the balance strongly in favor of summoning and buffs.

Eiji-kun likes this article and rated it 3 of 4.

I like this, I really do. Sorcerers are still super counterspellers, but this is by design and pretty good to give the lesser of the two gods the buff. This gives incentive to use dispel magic over other forms of counterspelling too, giving utility to the spell. I really do enjoy the image of two wizards locked in duels though, using AoOs to keep each other at bay. Quicken is suddenly more important overall, as well as arcane spellsurge.