User talk:Vebyast/Speedened (3.5e Class)

Ratings

Eiji-kun opposes this article and rated it 0 of 4.

3-25-2010. Arrived at the scene of the crime. One Mister "Action Economy" was found dead, beaten and bloodied, in his home. Forensics said it must have been at least three or more guys, all the attacks came at once. It was like an entire party of people. However, we only found evidence of one person in the area, and eyewitnesses claimed to have seen nothing but heard him making Diplomacy checks at speeds higher than audible. We're calling the suspect "Mr. Chipmunk" until we have an ID on the perp. We need to get this man.

	Spanambula opposes this article and rated it 0 of 4.
	I am using blueshift to reduce my 10 minute NOPE to an immediate NOPE.

	Leziad opposes this article and rated it 0 of 4.
	This kill the action economy.

DanielDraco opposes this article and rated it 0 of 4.

This is honestly the most creative speed-based class I've ever seen, and, like Foxwarrior, I do want to like it. But even in VH, this is overpowered. I accept that hard counters are part of the VH game, but they still must be reined in enough to ensure there still is a game. A load of these abilities seem dedicated to making anything the opponent tries to do completely irrelevant -- which makes it no longer competitive, and arguably no longer a game. Rocket tag is stupid, but if you're going to play it at least let your enemies keep their rockets. You're right that it's a sucky attacker, but it still can attack, which places it far above any foe. Wait, no, it's not a sucky attacker. It gets to cherrypick spells and use assloads of them per round.

	Fluffykittens dislikes this article and rated it 1 of 4.
	I want to like this- but it does terrible things to the action economy.

Isn't the entire point of the class to do terrible things to the action economy? --Foxwarrior (talk) 03:15, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

Unless you meant them to have sixth level spells at level 1, those 0s should be - just to avoid confusion.

• Thanks, fixed. Forgot about bonus spells from high stats. Also, as I mentioned, still adding features. Vebyast 19:44, August 1, 2010 (UTC)

Overpowered

Unlimited AoO? The ability to sidestep every other melee attack? This is much better than tome barbarian or tome fighter or anything like that.--Parakee^Talk 11:45, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

The Tome Fighter can reroll one die per round and update his feat list in realtime, the Tome Soldier can make himself invisible for one round to any enemy he hits, and the Tome Barbarian has both DR and Fast Healing. Furthermore, a Speedened's dodging abilities come out of the same resource as his offensive abilities; if he uses up his slide movement dodging attacks he can't do anything when his turn comes around. Vebyast 07:48, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Wizard-level is a range anywhere from a warlock or psion to planar shepherd, IotSV, or incantatrix. (I might be willing to say it goes up all the way to Pun-Pun, but we don't need to go that far for the purpose of this class.) I think this falls somewhere in that range. Therefore, this is pretty solidly wizard-level. 'Nuff said? --Ghostwheel 10:34, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

I need to get it codified, or call it the Eiji Fallacy or something, but I felt like pointing out that I draw a line between Wizard and broken, and the two should not be related. I've unoffically called the stuff above wizard as "planar shepard" level. Point is, I highly advise anyone who reads this to firmly reject the notion that "wizard means I can do anything, even Pun-Pun". It devalues the concept of wizard level, and serves nobody.

No comment on the class yet, haven't read much into it. What it sounds like though doesn't sound good. -- Eiji-kun 23:15, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

I tried to make this recognizably more powerful than a rogue and somewhere around a wizard. I don't think it's significantly more powerful than a wizard, though; it only scores 8/10 or 9/10 on Same Game Tests due to a distinct lack of killing power. It can dodge just about anything, and it's incredibly annoying in a fight, but it hits like a monk and can't heal itself. Vebyast 06:11, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

What's the justification behind not letting you Blueshift spells that you get from multiclassing into Wizard? I feel like a Wizard 13 and a Speedened 4/Wizard 9 could both shine nicely in the same party. Obviously though, Spherecasting would be utterly stupid. --Foxwarrior (talk) 03:37, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

Speedened vs. Garchomp... I'd love to see that fight. On a side note, I think I've finally found a perfect class for Sonic the Hedgehog. --Luigifan18 (talk) 15:13, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Back Attack question

First off, I just wanted to say that I really like the flavor and mechanics of this class.

I want to make sure I'm understanding the Back Attack speed trick correctly though. "Whenever you slide or move out of a space, you threaten enemies as if you were in that space until the beginning of your next turn." If I read that as any square I move out of, from both normal movement (increased by 15 due to faster) and slide movement, it seems like it has the potential to threaten just about every square in the battle, especially if you add in a reach weapon.

Maybe I'm reading it incorrectly and it is only supposed to apply to squares that you move out of using slide movement in some fashion? Otherwise simply spending a move action (which the speedened can do at the low cost of a swift action at level 5) allows for threatening and making opportunity attacks as if you were in 9 different squares (assuming base move of 30 + faster) which just seems insanely powerful and worth doing pretty much every round. Spending 2 move actions would just about ensure any enemy in the battle is in a threatened space.

Thanks!

How you are reading it looks correct. But unless you do use a reach weapon and take combat reflexes, this isn't going to be too useful, and if you do, you are using wizard level tactics, which this class is balanced to. --Havvy 14:25, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

You don't need to take combat reflexes. It can automatically take an unlimited number of AoOs at level one thanks to Opportunism. This class seems like it would be a really good dip for something like a Tenken (although you'd probably only see it with the Tome one) for a huge amount of base speed (especially if it's a Speedened 1/Tenken 19 because then you've got a full attack against any enemy that provokes anywhere in the battle).

Yeah, stupid synergy with Tome Tenken. Bladewind and Astra, ow ow ow. Thankfully, Blueshift+Astra doesn't kick in until Level 13, by which time Wizards are throwing around 7th-level spells.

Also, that is the intended meaning - once you take that, you threaten everything everywhere. As Havvy points out, though, that's Wizard-level, and threatening people isn't incredibly useful unless you build your character around it. The real question, as Eiji-kun points out above, is where in Wizard it falls.

Well,

Snatch: if I'm not mistaken, "The target makes a reflex save against your own reflex save bonus" is just a flat 45% chance for the ability to work Misread, please ignore.

Ground dodge + earth glide= pop into ground whenever an enemy would possibly threaten you

Blueshift 1 + class spellcasting= 2 webs and one gust of wind in a single turn at level 4

Blueshift (any) + ranks in umd + magic staff= SPELL RUSH KEKEKEKE

Fluffykittens (talk) 02:17, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps a lot of the multiclassing/items nonsense would be fixed by replacing the "you can't blueshift spells from other classes" bit with a "you can't blueshift spells/powers/etc from any other source unless you have at least twice as many levels in non-Speedened classes/LA as the level of the spell/power/etc." --Foxwarrior (talk) 20:16, 23 November 2012 (UTC)