Difference between revisions of "User:The-Marksman/Sandbox"
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'''Maduin, Zoneseek, Quetzalli (Palidor):''' These were originally on the list to be used in middle/lower tiers, but the combination of difficulty finding high resolution images of them, and their limited appearances in so few games ultimately led to me cutting them. | '''Maduin, Zoneseek, Quetzalli (Palidor):''' These were originally on the list to be used in middle/lower tiers, but the combination of difficulty finding high resolution images of them, and their limited appearances in so few games ultimately led to me cutting them. | ||
| − | '''Moogle, Mini Mog, Boko:''' The silliness of the animation thematics didnt match with the theme and energy I was going for with the Summoner class. Also, with Boko, there is never any Chocobo in | + | '''Moogle, Mini Mog, Boko:''' The silliness of the animation thematics didnt match with the theme and energy I was going for with the Summoner class. Also, with Boko, there is never any Chocobo in the franchise with those kinds of attack powers and I didnt want to set a president for that with the normal Chocobo summon. |
'''Pandemonam, Madeen:''' Found both of these interesting, but both only appeared in 1 game. I was afraid anyone who hasnt played the one game they came from wouldnt be familiar with them. Note that Kujata also falls into this category, but I was able to find an exceptional image for Kujata, and FF7 is one of the most popular in the franchise which ultimately led to me using Kujata. | '''Pandemonam, Madeen:''' Found both of these interesting, but both only appeared in 1 game. I was afraid anyone who hasnt played the one game they came from wouldnt be familiar with them. Note that Kujata also falls into this category, but I was able to find an exceptional image for Kujata, and FF7 is one of the most popular in the franchise which ultimately led to me using Kujata. | ||
| − | '''Remora, Moomba:''' Lack | + | '''Remora, Moomba:''' Lack of appearances in more than one game and having such a small role in the game they did appear in, coupled with the lack of high quality images to use, didnt make it a priority to try and fit them in. |
| − | '''Bismarck:''' This one actual WAS on the list from the beginning until very late in the project when I was hashing out what each Esper did mechanically. I tried to think when and where a Summoner could summon this and it would either have to be in large aquatic environments only, or it would have to float/fly or something which would stretch the suspension of disbelief. Also, with the sheer size, even a slightly scaled down whale would still be either too large for many dungeons / situations or if you scaled him down enough to fit, then he would lose | + | '''Bismarck:''' This one actual WAS on the list from the beginning until very late in the project when I was hashing out what each Esper did mechanically. I tried to think when and where a Summoner could summon this and it would either have to be in large aquatic environments only, or it would have to float/fly or something which would stretch the suspension of disbelief. Also, with the sheer size, even a slightly scaled down whale would still be either too large for many dungeons / situations or if you scaled him down enough to fit, then he would lose his impressiveness and grandure. |
| − | '''Crusader:''' Had originally intended to use him as an Aeon in my original sketch out of the class, but when I reviewed Crusader's attack and remembered it's meant to damage the party as well, I didnt want anything in the class that would be viewed as a detriment to the party and I also didnt want to alter it and have it stray from the source material. | + | '''Crusader:''' Had originally intended to use him as an Aeon in my original sketch out of the class, but when I reviewed Crusader's attack and remembered it's meant to damage the party as well, I didnt want anything in the class that would be viewed as a detriment to the D&D party and I also didnt want to alter it and have it stray from the source material. |
'''Magic Pot:''' Found a decent enough image, but was unsure how to convert his abilities into something useful in D&D. Also, I already had the Goblin summon from Final Fantasy 4 and didnt want to have 2 so similar. | '''Magic Pot:''' Found a decent enough image, but was unsure how to convert his abilities into something useful in D&D. Also, I already had the Goblin summon from Final Fantasy 4 and didnt want to have 2 so similar. | ||
| Line 102: | Line 102: | ||
===Esper by Ability Scores=== | ===Esper by Ability Scores=== | ||
| − | In case anyone wonders how I came to my decisions about ability scores for the Espers. I made a list in wordpad of the ability scores in these ranges and then tried to place them where it felt they made the most sense. The ones that may stand out as weird to some people are Unicorn, Ixion and Bahamut. I ranked these ones differently. I tried to get | + | In case anyone wonders how I came to my decisions about ability scores for the Espers. I made a list in wordpad of the ability scores in these ranges and then tried to place them where it felt they made the most sense. The ones that may stand out as weird to some people are Unicorn, Ixion and Bahamut. I ranked these ones differently. I tried to get close to the unicorn stats from the Monster Manual for Unicorn and used Celestial Charger as a gauge for Ixion. I also looked at stats for various dragons in the Monster Manual for Bahamut. Specifically that's why his strength and constitution are so much higher. |
As stated earlier, this is all very subjective, so yes a specific Esper might be able to be moved slightly up or slightly down on any given stat. Due to the subjective nature, most people wont agree completely on any of this, but this is where I landed, and I feel Im somewhat close. | As stated earlier, this is all very subjective, so yes a specific Esper might be able to be moved slightly up or slightly down on any given stat. Due to the subjective nature, most people wont agree completely on any of this, but this is where I landed, and I feel Im somewhat close. | ||
Revision as of 20:57, 24 January 2024
Contents
Esper Names
There are some summoned monsters that received different names in the American localization of the games than they had in the original Japanese version. I did some research and the original Japanese names are used in more titles across the franchise and as such, although I myself grew up with the American localization names, I opted to use the more frequently seen original Japanese names in this class. Below are all of the summoned monsters that had different names I had to decide between.
Valigarmanda = Tritoch
Midgardsormr = Terrato
Catoblepas = Shoat
Lakshmi = Starlet
Cait Sith = Stray
Tier Organization
Where ranking the summoned monsters into tiers will undoubtedly be a subjective thing that people will disagree on. In order to prevent questions of "Why is this Esper in that tier?" And "How come X Esper is more powerful than Y Esper?" I'll try to explain some of the rationalization as to how I made my decisions. I did my best to organize the Esper's among the tiers as to not have all of one kind of Esper attack/style on one single tier and then not get any of those types of Esper on other tiers. Some of the different ways that I organized them were:
I purposely kept Shiva, Ifrit and Ramuh together on the same tier due to their common story ties to one another across the series. While those 3 are iconic and appear in so many installments, they are also generally early game acquisitions, so I put them in the 2nd tier to reflect that. Also, where they are Ice/Fire/Lightning themed respectively, I purposely put Valigarmanda in the tier right after them since he's tri-elemental.
I made it so that the player will get a new mount option on every tier except Aeon.
Tier 1: Chocobo
Tier 2: Unicorn
Tier 3: Syldra (aquatic)
Tier 4: Ixion (2 person)
Then I also stacked them to only have 1 restorative/curative Esper per tier as well, except one. I had 6 restorative Espers and 5 tiers. Also, note that there is a piece of lore in FF6 that states that Lakshmi (formerly known as Starlet) is a more powerful healer than Sraphim and I followed that lore.
Tier 1: Kirin
Tier 2: Unicorn
Tier 3: Sraphim
Tier 4: Lakshmi and Asura (Asura's effects are randomized, hense why I stacked this tier)
Tier 5: Phoenix
I also tried to somewhat separate the thematic Espers between tiers as well.
Electrical Attack Espers:
Tier 2: Ramuh
Tier 3: Quezacotl
Tier 4: Ixion
Earth Attack Espers:
Tier 2: Brothers
Tier 3: Midgardsormr
Tier 4: Titan
Fire Attack Espers:
Tier 1: Bomb
Tier 2: Ifrit
Tier 3: Cerberus
then ones with dark themes:
Tier 3: Cerberus
Tier 4: Hades
Tier 5: Diablos
Then a loose association between humanoid shaped characters wielding manufactured metal weapons:
Tier 1: Goblin
Tier 2: Gilgamesh
Tier 3: Yojimbo
Tier 5: Odin / Knights of the Round
Unused Espers
Some of you reading this may be wondering why a specific summoned monster or one of your specific favorite summoned monsters isnt used in this class. There are almost 100 unique summoned creatures across the entire Final Fantasy franchise. Far more than would be practical to have in one class. As it is, I really felt like I was pushing the envelope already with the amount I did include, since many Final Fantasy games will only have 1-2 dozen or less and I was double that. So, below is a list of the summoned monsters that were not selected to go into this class and my general rationalization for not using them.
If there is a particular Esper that you're particularly fond of and want to be able to use it, I'm not at all opposed to a player working with their DM and together coming up with a stat block and overdrive for the Esper and then just slot it into whatever tier you both agree is balanced. Alternatively, I would also challenge you to wait, and consider using it as your Final Aeon.
Raiden, Bahamut Fury, Neo Bahamut, Bahamut Zero: Im sure these ones will be among the most pointed out. I didnt want multiples of any given summon, and I see these as alternate forms of Odin & Bahamut respectively and I wanted to use the originals for nostalgia's sake.
Eden, Ark, Doomtrain, Atomos: I did initially look into all of these, but they are so large that it wouldnt be practical to be able to summon them in many locations / situations. With Eden, Ark and Doomtrain in particular, I also didnt want to use anything that would appear as too technological that may clash with a game's setting.
Maduin, Zoneseek, Quetzalli (Palidor): These were originally on the list to be used in middle/lower tiers, but the combination of difficulty finding high resolution images of them, and their limited appearances in so few games ultimately led to me cutting them.
Moogle, Mini Mog, Boko: The silliness of the animation thematics didnt match with the theme and energy I was going for with the Summoner class. Also, with Boko, there is never any Chocobo in the franchise with those kinds of attack powers and I didnt want to set a president for that with the normal Chocobo summon.
Pandemonam, Madeen: Found both of these interesting, but both only appeared in 1 game. I was afraid anyone who hasnt played the one game they came from wouldnt be familiar with them. Note that Kujata also falls into this category, but I was able to find an exceptional image for Kujata, and FF7 is one of the most popular in the franchise which ultimately led to me using Kujata.
Remora, Moomba: Lack of appearances in more than one game and having such a small role in the game they did appear in, coupled with the lack of high quality images to use, didnt make it a priority to try and fit them in.
Bismarck: This one actual WAS on the list from the beginning until very late in the project when I was hashing out what each Esper did mechanically. I tried to think when and where a Summoner could summon this and it would either have to be in large aquatic environments only, or it would have to float/fly or something which would stretch the suspension of disbelief. Also, with the sheer size, even a slightly scaled down whale would still be either too large for many dungeons / situations or if you scaled him down enough to fit, then he would lose his impressiveness and grandure.
Crusader: Had originally intended to use him as an Aeon in my original sketch out of the class, but when I reviewed Crusader's attack and remembered it's meant to damage the party as well, I didnt want anything in the class that would be viewed as a detriment to the D&D party and I also didnt want to alter it and have it stray from the source material.
Magic Pot: Found a decent enough image, but was unsure how to convert his abilities into something useful in D&D. Also, I already had the Goblin summon from Final Fantasy 4 and didnt want to have 2 so similar.
Ragnarok The concept of a sword as an Esper didnt feel very right to me. Also, with only a couple appearances and no amazing images of it, I wasn't very compelled to consider it.
Typhon: Classic creature to the series, but comes off as more of an antagonist even though he has been summonable a couple times.
Angelo: Wasnt technically a normal summon. Was associated with Riona.
Final Fantasy 12 summons; Zodiark, Adrammelech, Zalera, Mateus, Zeromus, Exodus, Chaos, Famfrit, Ultima, Belais, Hashmal, Cuchulainn, Shemhazai: I have never played FFXII to know how to convert these, and also, I did watch these summons on You Tube. Not only are these creatures that have never been summons in any other Final Fantasy game (like others on this list), but I found their animations to be more flash and less substance.
Final Fantasy 13 summons; Hecatoncheir, Brynhildr, Bahamut, Alexander, Odin, Shiva: While I liked that they did a hybrid selection of classic and new summoned creatures, and the summoning animations were not “more flash and less substance” like the FFXII summons, everything positive about it was completely thrown away by the atrocious and hideous remakes of the classic summons, and the fact that everyone was a Transformer. Also, see the previous technological concern from Eden, Ark & Doomtrain.
Esper by Ability Scores
In case anyone wonders how I came to my decisions about ability scores for the Espers. I made a list in wordpad of the ability scores in these ranges and then tried to place them where it felt they made the most sense. The ones that may stand out as weird to some people are Unicorn, Ixion and Bahamut. I ranked these ones differently. I tried to get close to the unicorn stats from the Monster Manual for Unicorn and used Celestial Charger as a gauge for Ixion. I also looked at stats for various dragons in the Monster Manual for Bahamut. Specifically that's why his strength and constitution are so much higher.
As stated earlier, this is all very subjective, so yes a specific Esper might be able to be moved slightly up or slightly down on any given stat. Due to the subjective nature, most people wont agree completely on any of this, but this is where I landed, and I feel Im somewhat close.
| Score | - |
|---|---|
| 4-5 | Sylph |
| 6-7 | Cactuar, Carbuncle |
| 8-9 | Cait Sith, Tonberry, Siren, Seraphim |
| 10-11 | Bomb, Cockatrice, Ramuh, Asura, Lakshmi |
| 12-13 | Mindflayer, Shiva, Goblin, Chocobo, Valefor |
| 14-15 | Kirin, Magus Sisters, Fenrir, Knights of the Round, Quezacotl |
| 16-17 | Gilgamesh, Kujata, Yojimbo, Catoblepas |
| 18-19 | Syldra, Valigarmanda, Phoenix, Hades, Brothers |
| 20-21 | Ifrit, Unicorn, Cerberus, Diablos |
| 22-23 | Golem, Mist Dragon, Ixion |
| 24-25 | Alexander, Anima |
| 26-27 | Leviathan, Odin |
| 28-29 | Midgardsormr, Titan |
| 45 | Bahamut |
| Score | Esper |
|---|---|
| 6-7 | Alexander |
| 8-9 | Tonberry, Catoblepas, Golem |
| 10-11 | Anima, Kujata, Kirin, Yojimbo, Knights of the Round |
| 12-13 | Cockatrice, Ramuh, Goblin, Midgardsormr, Bahamut, Titan, Valigarmanda, Diablos |
| 14-15 | Asura, Hades, Brothers, Mindflayer, Ifrit, Syldra, Sraphim, Odin |
| 16-17 | Magus Sisters, Gilgamesh, Unicorn, Leviathan |
| 18-19 | Ixion, Lakshmi, Cerberus, Mist Dragon, Siren |
| 20-21 | Chocobo, Shiva, Phoenix, Fenrir, Cait Sith, Valefor |
| 22-23 | Bomb, Quezacotl, Phantom |
| 24-25 | Carbuncle |
| 26-27 | Cactuar |
| 28-29 | Sylph |
| Score | Esper |
|---|---|
| – | Phantom, Golem |
| 6-7 | Sylph |
| 8-9 | Cactuar, Cait Sith, Carbuncle, Ramuh |
| 10-11 | Cockatrice, Sraphim, Siren |
| 12-13 | Lakshmi, Valefor, Kirin |
| 14-15 | Bomb, Goblin, Mindflayer, Fenrir, Magus Sisters |
| 16-17 | Shiva, Chocobo, Kujata, Quezacotl, Hades |
| 18-19 | Valigarmanda, Gilgamesh, Asura, Mist Dragon, Syldra, Catoblepas |
| 20-21 | Knights of the Round, Ixion, Unicorn, Yojimbo |
| 22-23 | Brothers, Cerberus, Diablos |
| 24-25 | Ifrit, Leviathan, Anima, Tonberry |
| 26-27 | Phoenix, Alexander, Titan |
| 28-29 | Odin, Midgardsormr |
| 30 | Bahamut |
| Score | Esper |
|---|---|
| 4-5 | Cockatrice, Chocobo, Bomb, Midgardsormr |
| 6-7 | Cactuar, Valefor, Cerberus, Fenrir, Quezacotl |
| 8-9 | Catoblepas, Kirin, Kujata, Carbuncle, Golem, Goblin |
| 10-11 | Unicorn, Syldra, Brothers, Gilgamesh, Tonberry, Titan |
| 12-13 | Phantom, Sylph, Alexander, Ixion, Siren, Knights of the Round, Ifrit |
| 14-15 | Shiva, Yojimbo, Cait Sith |
| 16-17 | Phoenix, Mist Dragon, Anima, Sraphim |
| 18-19 | Leviathan, Valigarmanda, Hades, Mindflayer |
| 20-21 | Lakshmi, Bahamut |
| 22-23 | Asura, Diablos |
| 24-25 | Odin |
| 26-27 | The Magus Sisters |
| 28-29 | Ramuh |
| Score | Esper |
|---|---|
| 8-9 | Gilgamesh, Brothers |
| 10-11 | Alexander, Titan, Midgardsormr, Bomb, Golem, Goblin |
| 12-13 | Knights of the Round, Valefor, Tonberry, Cait Sith, Fenrir |
| 14-15 | Cockatrice, Ifrit, Chocobo, Phantom, Quezacotl, Syldra |
| 16-17 | Phoenix, Mist Dragon, Catoblepas, Yojimbo, Kirin |
| 18-19 | Cerberus, Sylph, Shiva, Diablos, The Magus Sisters |
| 20-21 | Cactuar, Carbuncle, Kujata, Unicorn, Valigarmanda, Siren |
| 22-23 | Ixion, Mindflayer, Anima, Sraphim, Hades |
| 24-25 | Leviathan, Bahamut, Lakshmi |
| 26-27 | Ramuh, Asura |
| 28-29 | Odin |
| Score | Summoned Creatures |
|---|---|
| 6-7 | Alexander, Golem, Kujata, Goblin |
| 8-9 | Phantom, Midgardsormr, Titan, Brothers |
| 10-11 | Cockatrice, Mindflayer, Bomb, Tonberry |
| 12-13 | Knights of the Round, Cactuar, Valefor, Quezacotl, Fenrir |
| 14-15 | Syldra, Sylph, Mist Dragon, Yojimbo, Cerberus, Ramuh |
| 16-17 | Catoblepas, Chocobo, Gilgamesh, Valigarmanda |
| 18-19 | Carbuncle, Ifrit, Leviathan, Anima |
| 20-21 | Ixion, Hades, Kirin, Cait Sith |
| 22-23 | Shiva, Diablos, Unicorn, Odin |
| 24-25 | Siren, Phoenix, Bahamut |
| 26-27 | Seraphim, Asura |
| 28-29 | The Magus Sisters, Lakshmi |
Esper Ability Scores by Tier
Here is a comparison of each Esper stacked against the other Espers in their tier and the total of their ability scores. Some are a little lower such as Golem, Phantom and Alexander since they dont have Constitution scores. Also, Knights of the Round may seem weaker, but that's because their strength in the game didnt come from each individual Knight being extraordinary, like say Bahamut, it came from volume of individual strikes.
| Esper | STR | DEX | CON | INT | WIS | CHA | Total |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Bomb | 10 | 22 | 14 | 5 | 11 | 11 | 73 |
| Cactuar | 6 | 26 | 8 | 6 | 20 | 12 | 78 |
| Cait Sith | 8 | 21 | 8 | 15 | 13 | 21 | 86 |
| Chocobo | 13 | 20 | 16 | 4 | 14 | 16 | 83 |
| Cockatrice | 10 | 12 | 10 | 4 | 14 | 13 | 63 |
| Goblin | 13 | 12 | 14 | 9 | 11 | 7 | 66 |
| Kirin | 14 | 11 | 17 | 8 | 17 | 21 | 88 |
| Mindflayer | 12 | 14 | 14 | 18 | 22 | 10 | 90 |
| Siren | 9 | 19 | 11 | 13 | 21 | 24 | 97 |
| Sylph | 5 | 28 | 7 | 12 | 18 | 15 | 86 |
| Esper | STR | DEX | CON | INT | WIS | CHA | Total |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Brothers | 19 | 14 | 22 | 10 | 11 | 9 | 85 |
| Fenrir | 15 | 21 | 15 | 7 | 13 | 13 | 84 |
| Gilgamesh | 16 | 16 | 18 | 11 | 9 | 17 | 87 |
| Ifrit | 20 | 15 | 24 | 13 | 14 | 18 | 104 |
| Kujata | 16 | 10 | 17 | 8 | 20 | 7 | 78 |
| Mist Dragon | 22 | 19 | 19 | 16 | 16 | 15 | 107 |
| Ramah | 11 | 12 | 9 | 29 | 26 | 15 | 102 |
| Shiva | 12 | 20 | 16 | 14 | 19 | 22 | 103 |
| Tonberry | 8 | 8 | 25 | 11 | 13 | 11 | 76 |
| Unicorn | 20 | 17 | 21 | 10 | 21 | 23 | 112 |
| Esper | STR | DEX | CON | INT | WIS | CHA | Total |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Cerberus | 21 | 19 | 22 | 6 | 18 | 15 | 101 |
| Golem | 22 | 9 | – | 9 | 11 | 6 | 57 |
| Midgardsormr | 28 | 12 | 29 | 5 | 10 | 8 | 92 |
| Quezacotl | 15 | 22 | 17 | 7 | 15 | 13 | 89 |
| Sraphim | 9 | 15 | 10 | 17 | 23 | 26 | 100 |
| Syldra | 18 | 15 | 19 | 10 | 15 | 14 | 91 |
| Valefor | 13 | 21 | 12 | 6 | 12 | 13 | 77 |
| Valigarmanda | 18 | 13 | 18 | 18 | 21 | 17 | 105 |
| Yojimbo | 17 | 11 | 21 | 15 | 17 | 15 | 96 |
| Esper | STR | DEX | CON | INT | WIS | CHA | Total |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Asura | 11 | 14 | 18 | 22 | 27 | 27 | 119 |
| Carbuncle | 6 | 25 | 9 | 9 | 20 | 18 | 87 |
| Catoblepas | 17 | 9 | 19 | 8 | 17 | 16 | 86 |
| Hades | 19 | 14 | 17 | 19 | 19 | 20 | 108 |
| Ixion | 23 | 18 | 20 | 13 | 22 | 20 | 116 |
| Lakshmi | 11 | 18 | 12 | 20 | 25 | 29 | 115 |
| Leviathan | 26 | 17 | 24 | 18 | 24 | 19 | 128 |
| Phantom | 4 | 23 | – | 12 | 15 | 8 | 62 |
| Titan | 29 | 13 | 27 | 11 | 10 | 9 | 99 |
| Esper | STR | DEX | CON | INT | WIS | CHA | Total |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Alexander | 24 | 7 | 27 | 12 | 10 | 6 | 86 |
| Anima | 25 | 10 | 25 | 16 | 22 | 19 | 117 |
| Bahamut | 45 | 12 | 30 | 21 | 25 | 25 | 158 |
| Diablos | 21 | 13 | 23 | 23 | 19 | 22 | 121 |
| Knights of the Round | 15 | 11 | 20 | 13 | 12 | 12 | 83 |
| Magus Sisters | 14 | 16 | 15 | 26 | 23 | 28 | 122 |
| Odin | 27 | 15 | 28 | 24 | 29 | 23 | 146 |
| Phoenix | 19 | 20 | 26 | 16 | 16 | 25 | 122 |
