Talk:Expanded Size Categories (3.5e Variant Rule)

Cool

No rating this time. Instead, I just want to say that this is really cool and I plan to be using this in some of my future homebrew, supposing it can be finished. On that same note, I was wondering if I could lend aid in developing this rule. I was also wondering why you used such weird formatting for the carrying capacities. Why does it have to be 20^9? Can't it just be 5.12x10^11? -Hammerhead

Why thank you. This actually needs finishing one day (I want to find out how to collapse the tables, otherwise this will be very large indeed), but the important ones are done. This is partly cribbed from the Immortal's Handbook, though I believe our scaling differs too.

As far as the 20^9, if memory serves I remember picking up relative sizes of things from somewhere else, perhaps Wikipedia. Sadly math was my dump stat so I didn't bother fixing it lest I mess it up. Feel free to help! -- Eiji-kun (talk) 07:11, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

You should just go ahead and let it be a big page, if you can't make it auto-collapse. Either that, or find a person who actually knows how to collapse things and get the information. Though, if you want, I could take your numbers and make them prettier. To help me help you, could you give me a comprehensive list of what each size you've already created is supposed to correspond to. Also, instead of having a series of individual tables, why not simply have it all be one table? Were you wanting to go with any particular formula for the tables? How would you feel about comments and footnotes that give the reader an idea of what's supposed to be going on? Should there be additional rules when a creature is large enough that a planet is an Ioun stone to them? (Planetary Ioun magic item: It's a magic satellite.) Just vomit all your thoughts out. -Hammerhead

Eiji - add "mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" to the class declarations at the start of the table. Ex: {| class="zebra d20" -> {| class="zebra d20 mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" - Tarkisflux ^Talk 07:27, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Joy! I shall deal with this later/tomorrow then, thank you! -- Eiji-kun (talk) 08:54, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Yocto - Neutrino

Zepto - Proton

Atto - Atom

Femto - Smoke Particle

Pico - Red Blood Cell

Nano - Dust Particle

Micro - Insect

Standard - Human

Macro - Mountain

Mega - Planet

Giga - Star

Tera - Solar System

Peta - Nebula

Exa - Spiral Arm of a Galaxy

Zetta - Galaxy

Yotta - Supercluster

I'm pretty sure this is accurate. The Nebula/Spiral Arm of Galaxy/Galaxy bit should probably be chopped up a bit into "Large Nebula"/"Spiral Arm of Milky Way Galaxy"/"Large Galaxy". It's difficult to get accurate parallels when we're talking about something that fills a noticeable portion of the visible universe. -Hammerhead

(RESET INDENT) Time to buckle up and stop being lazy, time to get to work. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 02:18, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

I don't believe you succeeded at buckling down. :P My offer to adopt still stands, by the way. -Hammerhead

You would be correct. I must stand aside, you may go ahead, as I don't have time in the future. Though, if you need any help feel free to ask. Especially with making the subpages. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 02:52, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

Hey! Glad to see you've gotten this underway. Actually spent a fair portion of the last few days developing some rules for this. Now I'm wondering if you still plan to pass it over to me or if you wanna do it yourself. If the latter, would you like me to post what I've got? (You're probably just adding the subpages like you suggested, but I don't wanna move ahead if it's not clear.) -Hammerhead

No problems here. It's actually nothing unusual, you may be able to determine the pattern here. Each size doubles the last, and so the numbers and categories get pretty crazy. Though I've made up to Yotta, I imagine due to the exponential rate of growth we'll probably end early when we hit "size of Observable Universe". It goes the other way in reverse, growing exponentially smaller and smaller too until "Planck Scale".

The annoying part is just doing the math and crunching all those huge numbers. That said, a pattern is established once you hit the Macro scale, so it's just going on from there. Get it? -- Eiji-kun (talk) 00:53, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Well, I'm pretty good at crunching numbers, and right now, I'm assigning an object to each size category that would be that size category, for example:

Macrofine - Redwood Tree

Macrodiminutive - Eiffel Tower

Macrotiny - Empire State Building

Macrosmall - Small Mountain

Macromedium - Mount Vesuvius

Macrolarge - The Matterhorn

Macrohuge - Mount Everest

Macrogargantuan - Island of Aruba

Macrocolossal - Singapore

Macrotitanic - French Polynesia

I'm having trouble at the PETA stage. If I can find objects up to Petalarge, I'll be fine, after that, it's clear sailing, but finding things that are 2294 au across is difficult. You get to the size of the heliosphere, and then there's a huge gap before you get to the size of the Stingray Nebula. I'm still looking, and I've even asked an astrophysics Ph. D. at the local university to try and help me find things. But I went ahead and calculated the largest size in this scale: Yottatitanic, because of your concern, and it comes out at a diameter of 1,678 Mpc, and the observable universe is 8,000 Mpc, so you could actually fit about 100 Yottatitanics into the observable universe and they would still have room to wiggle and move past one another. You have questions about biology and gravitational effects, but, hey, fantasy world.

I'm planning to incorporate a few optional rules into this page as well, called "size disparity" and "relative size". Don't have them well defined at the moment, but they'll be fun to play around with. -Hammerhead

(RESET INDENT) Sounds like you have a plan. Thank you in advance for crunching numbers for me. I'm surprised, I figured the exponential scaling would hit singularity and we'd be at the universe in no time. Man, the universe really is huge.

I await to hear about your optional rules. Cool. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 02:34, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

I appreciate that you're taking the trouble to ask an astrophysicist. I want to see this chart list for science reasons as much as anything else now, which warms my poor heart. Thanks Hammerhead. - Tarkisflux ^Talk 02:50, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Oh, I'll be posting the whole thing when it's done. In the meantime, check out my piecemeal construction of the first half of the PETA scale. If someone can check these numbers, make sure I got them correct, it would be much appreciated.

Teratitanic - Heliosphere (143 au to 286 au)

Petafine - ProPlyD d053-717 (286 au to 573 au)

Petadiminutive - ProPlyD L1157 (573 au to 1147 au)

Petatiny - ProPlyD Beta Pictoris (1147 au to 2294 au)

Petasmall - L1551-IRS5 Circumstellar Envelope (2294 au to 4588 au)

Petamedium - Herbig-Haro Object 34 (4588 au to 9176 au)

Petalarge - Stingray Nebula (9176 au to 18352 au)

I gave myself a splitting headache wading through a lot of obscure papers today, so I'm not sure this is 100% accurate, but I'm fairly certain that not many people will be able to tell me that it's not accurate. -Hammerhead

(RESET INDENT (because I am not indenting this entire list, damnit!)) Here it is, as promised, the full list of size categories accord to this scale. As you can see, most of the smaller categories are left with simple ranges. This is because there are no known objects in our universe that exist in those size categories, and I know this as a fact, because we looked for those things pretty hard. Of course, if someone else can find something of appropriate size, I'll gladly update the list. Also, the smallest size of a Yoctofine is still 3,827,000,000,000 times larger than the Planck Length. (3.8 quadrillion!)

Yoctofine - 62-125 yoctometers Yoctodiminutive - 125-250 yoctometers Yoctotiny - 250-500 yoctometers Yoctosmall - 500-1000 yoctometers Yoctomedium - 1-2 zeptometers Yoctolarge - 2-4 zeptometers Yoctohuge - 20 GeV Neutrino Yoctogargantuan - 250 GeV Neutrino Yoctocolossal - 16-31 zeptometers Yoctotitanic - 31-62 zeptometers Zeptofine - 62-125 zeptometers Zeptodiminutive - 125-250 zeptometers Zeptotiny - 250-500 zeptometers Zeptosmall - 500-1000 zeptometers Zeptomedium - 1-2 attometers Zeptolarge - 2-4 attometers Zeptohuge - 4-8 attometers Zeptogargantuan - 8-16 attometers Zeptocolossal - 16-31 attometers Zeptotitanic - 31-62 attometers Attofine - 62-125 attometers Attodiminutive - 125-250 attometers Attotiny - 250-1000 attometers Attosmall - 500-1000 attometers Attomedium - Proton Attolarge - Lithium Nucleus Attohuge - Chlorine Nucleus Attogargantuan - Uranium Nucleus Attocolossal - 16-31 femtometers Attotitanic - 31-62 femtometers Femtofine - 62-125 femtometers Femtodiminutive - 125-250 femtometers Femtotiny - 250-500 femtometers Femtosmall - 500-1000 femtometers Femtomedium - Wavelength of Gamma Rays (300 EHz) Femtolarge - Compton Wavelength of Electron Femtohuge - Wavelength of Gamma Rays (75 EHz) Femtogargantuan - Wavelength of X-rays (30 EHz) Femtocolossal - Wavelength of X-rays (7.5 EHz) Femtotitanic - Hydrogen Atom (Empirical) Picofine - Oxygen Atom Picodiminutive - Carbon Atom Picotiny - Diamond Cell Picosmall - Quartz Cell Picomedium - Nucleotide Adenine Picolarge - Phospholipid Picohuge - Hemoglobin Picogargantuan - Porcine Circovirus Picocolossal - Rhinovirus Picotitanic - Hepatitis Virus Nanofine - Flu Virus Nanodiminutive - Rabies Virus Nanotiny - Wavelength of Visible Light (Violet-Green) Nanosmall - Wavelength of Visible Light (Yellow-Red) Nanomedium - Lead Dust Particle Nanolarge - E. Coli Nanohuge - X Chromosome Nanogargantuan - Red Blood Cell Nanocolossal - Skin Cell Nanotitanic - Human Egg Microfine - Dust Particle Microdiminutive - Dust Mite Microtiny - Tardigrade Microsmall - Fairyfly Micromedium - Flea Microlarge - Mealybug Microhuge - Whirligig Beetle Microgargantuan - Mill Moth Microcolossal - Garden Spider Microtitanic - Tarantula Hawk Wasp Fine - Hummingbird Diminutive - Bluebird Tiny - Cat Small - Dog Medium - Human Large - Horse Huge - Elephant Gargantuan - Giant Squid Colossal - Whale Titanic - Brazil Nut Tree Macrofine - Redwood Tree Macrodiminutive - Eiffel Tower Macrotiny - Empire State Building Macrosmall - Small Mountain Macromedium - Mount Vesuvius Macrolarge - The Matterhorn Macrohuge - Mount Everest Macrogargantuan - Island of Aruba Macrocolossal - Singapore Macrotitanic - French Polynesia Megafine - Isreal Megadiminutive - Panama Megatiny - Italy Megasmall - Egypt Megamedium - India Megalarge - Canada Megahuge - Indian Ocean Megagargantuan - Earth Megacolossal - Kepler-22b Megatitanic - Uranus Gigafine - Jupiter Gigadiminutive - Teide 1 Gigatiny - Lalande 21185 Gigasmall - Sun Gigamedium - Sirius Gigalarge - Beta Canis Minoris Gigahuge - RR Lyrae Gigagargantuan - Pollux Gigacolossal - Arcturus Gigatitanic - Aldebaran Terafine - Rigel A Teradiminuitive - Deneb Teratiny - Rho Cassiopeiae Terasmall - Antares Teramedium - UY Scuti Teralarge - Jupiter's Orbit Terahuge - Saturn's Orbit Teragargantuan - Uranus's Orbit Teracolossal - Kuiper Belt Teratitanic - Heliosphere Petafine - ProPlyD d053-717 Petadiminutive - ProPlyD L1157 Petatiny - ProPlyD Beta Pictoris Petasmall - L1551-IRS5 Circumstellar Envelope Petamedium - Herbig-Haro Object 34 Petalarge - Stingray Nebula Petahuge - Eskimo Nebula Petagargantuan - Owl Nebula Petacolossal - Butterfly Nebula Petatitanic - Eye of God Nebula Exafine - Crab Nebula Exadiminutive - Cocoon Nebula Exatiny - Orion Nebula Exasmall - Cave Nebula Examedium - Rosette Nebula Exalarge - Omega Centauri Exahuge - Carina Nebula Exagargantuan - Tarantula Nebula Exacolossal - Leo T Dwarf Galaxy Exatitanic - Hercules Dwarf Galaxy Zettafine - Small Magellanic Cloud Zettadiminutive - Large Magellanic Cloud Zettatiny - Mirarch's Ghost Zettasmall - Sombrero Galaxy Zettamedium - Milky Way Zettalarge - Andromeda Galaxy Zettahuge - Cygnus A Galaxy (jets) Zettagargantuan - Virgo A Galaxy Zettacolossal - Hercules A Galaxy (jets) Zettatitanic - Local Group Yottafine - Maffei Group Yottadiminutive - Virgo Cluster Yottatiny - Average Void Yottasmall - Aztec-3 Protocluster Yottamedium - Virgo Supercluster Yottalarge - Newfound Blob Yottahuge - Laniakea Supercluster Yottagargantuan - Pisces-Cetus Supercluster Complex Yottacolossal - Horologium Supercluster Yottatitanic - Huge LQG

Enjoy geeking out! -Hammerhead