Talk:Unorthodox Tutelage (3.5e Trait)

Ratings

Tarkisflux dislikes this article and rated it 1 of 4.

This is a trait that requires certain class combinations and/or feats in order to benefit from at all, and without the feat you can't even benefit from it at level 1. So even though I actually like the idea behind it, I can't get behind its implementation. The costs associated with it and the delayed usefulness of it seem counter to all of the design aspects of traits, and are a non-starter for me.

Trade

You're giving up 5 weapon proficiencies for 1 of your choice. That seems a bit stiff IMO, particularly in the case that you select a simple weapon. Maybe pick 1-2 martial or 2-4 simple weapons? - Tarkisflux ^Talk 06:12, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

You don't give up any proficiencies. Just the ability to use like... sais and kamas as part of a flurry of blows. --Ghostwheel (talk) 07:58, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

Fair enough, my mistake. Still not sure that's worth it as a trait. No idea what I'd suggest otherwise though, so meh. - Tarkisflux ^Talk 21:56, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

Flurry with a falchion. Add on keen and things that proc off crits. Full attack and things tend to go boom due to how many attacks you're taking. --Ghostwheel (talk) 19:19, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Requires proficiency which this doesn't give... and that means dipping in another class (that maybe isn't low) or spending a feat. Those seem like odd costs for a trait. Maybe limit it to any simple or one-handed martial weapons, and also give proficiency? - Tarkisflux ^Talk 20:36, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Or a feat. Which there are a few that give both a weapon prof and something decent. Or go psychic warrior. Or a bunch of things. Prefer not to limit it to only those. --Ghostwheel (talk) 21:18, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

I already said feat or classes....

Anyway, it's a trait that you can't benefit from at level 1 without spending a feat. If your first level is monk, you get to flurry with a weapon you're not proficient in. And if your first level isn't monk, you don't benefit at all until you get a level in monk. It's a trait that forces costs on people, whether in class dips or feats. Regardless of the things it grants you being decent, why is that sort of delayed benefit / required investment good design for a trait? - Tarkisflux ^Talk 22:39, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

While it might not be the best design-wise, I think it's an option that should be available without having to spend a feat. --Ghostwheel (talk) 23:09, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

But it's ok to spend a level /headtilt? Would it be better as an ACF perhaps? - Tarkisflux ^Talk 00:01, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

I'd also like it to be available under PF (there you wouldn't get the drawback, obviously), and while some DMs might allow it as a trait, far fewer would allow it as an archetype. Plus, I'd like it to be available for exotic weapons if you choose to take those. --Ghostwheel (talk) 09:58, 21 May 2014 (UTC)