Talk:Vocwel (3.5e Race)

Commentary

I haven't gone through the whole thing but quick thing right off the bat; odd ability scores are a baaaad idea, for mechanical reasons. Stick to the even ones. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 14:42, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

...I have read the rest.

No. No, god no. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 14:55, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

I have read it yes it needs some fixing but overall seems like a great balanced race if your ok with being ugly as shit woot —Preceding unsigned comment added by ‎98.100.10.118 (talk • contribs) at

Phew. I am willing to help, but there is a lot of work to do. Please remember everything that follows, no matter how harsh, is here to help you. There's fluff problems as well as mechanical ones, but I'm just going to work on the mechanical ones right now so not to overwhelm you, or if you are married to the current fluff.

So, here we go.

The Vocwel, alright, right off the bat I can tell you the formatting is all off. The first thing should be the ability score modifiers, and its not, and you are missing some stuff.

Ability Scores: As before, odd scores are a bad idea, which is why you always see other races with even scores. Keeping the same modifier bonuses as you have, it should be +4 Str, +6 Wis, +2 Int, -12 Cha. On the manner of scores... they're pretty bad. Giving a big penalty does not justify big bonuses. As a general rule, you shouldn't go over +2 with an ECL 1 race (which is what you're claiming below). Let me put it this way... at level 1, would be it fair to fight Killzor the Killbarian with a Strength of 9000, but it's ok because it has 1 in every other score? You realize it only needs to hit once (which it will with it's +4495 attack bonus before BAB) and then deal thousands of damage. Yeah, doesn't work, no matter how much you dump charisma to justify it.

Type?: Isn't even on here. What is this, a humanoid? An outsider? Maybe it's vermin, it might be, who knows.

Large: As a general rule, you should be Small or Medium, with other sizes usually justifying an LA +1 or higher. There are many benefits to abnormal sizes (for Large, reach being the biggest one) which are not always balanced out by their downsides. If they must be large, consider Powerful Build (and also consider that even Powerful Build is really good, there aren't any canon races which give it without an LA 1 on it).

Speeds: While not impossible, having odd speed bonuses does play hell with any ability which halves or otherwise decreases speed. Stick to 30 ft, or make it 40, 35 is just half-assing it. Then we have a burrow speed, which I do not advise. Besides being really useful and as fast as their land movement, nothing about their fluff indicates them as diggers. If this was a race of moles, or living drills, or something sure. But as far as I can tell, this is a race of four armed humanoid giants with a case of the spider eyes. And nothing about that is burrow-worthy.

Vision Modes: Not the strongest, but it's just overkill having Superior Low-Light vision instead of normal Low-Light vision as well as Darkvision. None of this is overwhelming on it's own, but all together it just gives me the impression you were like "let's throw all the best visions together as see what happens"?

Four Arms: Four arms is another one of those things that, like Large, is usually worth +1 LA on it's own. Additional arms means multiweapon fighting (and thus additional attacks), or more importantly the ability to carry oversized weaponry via more hands. These guys can currently swing around Gargantuan Greatswords in four hands. And you are claiming this is ECL 1? This is balanced against a vanilla human, dwarf, or even warforged? I do not think so.

Dragonic Ichor: I think you meant Draconic, or Dragon. And since this is something about having Dragon Blood, you have your usual Dragon themed immunities of sleep and paralysis... oh wait, polymorph, petrification, and form altering. What in the world does that have to do with dragons? Why do they have immunities at all when they have all those other abilities above and below?

Hold Breath: There's nothing unbalanced about this, but it's another thing that is just random. Why are four armed spider eye giants good at holding their breath?

Endure Atmosphere: Ok, a partial explanation. Kinda. Seems there is a running theme that these guys are good at breathing the unbreathable, and holding breath when there is nothing to breath. But... why?

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: Typically classes give this, and races give specialization in a few weapons or armor based on flavor. Elves do bows because the fluff says they live in forests and hunt and stuff. Dwarves do axes and hammers because dwarves like big heavy stout weapons like that. Why do these guys specialize in most weapons and armor and shields?

Languages: Draconic, again. Amusingly, these guys don't start with Common. Good luck talking to your allies!

LA and ECL: Yeah, these guys are NOT ECL 1. In the slightest. ECL 1 means you should be a comparable choice to Humans, Elves, Dwarves, and the like. The strongest ECL 1 race I know of is arguably the Warforged. And this does not even compare to what is listed. How do you justify it?

Solve these problems, and we're halfway there. I also want to take you to task about the flavor of the whole thing, but one thing at a time. Remember you can sign your posts by typing ~~~~ after your post, so we know who is talking. Like this. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 02:24, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

::: Hello there (talk) imma need help editing the crap out of this if you would like to help I am taking over I think I understand where the person wanted to make his concept, imma just fix it up and balance it out. 12.94.111.130 12:26, 10 August 2015 (UTC) ROSEMOON