Talk:3.5e Races

Nav Page and Properties

Gonna clean this up soon. The info on the page is pretty good for hunting down a race as is, and about the only thing I can think to add to it is a Racial Stat Mod column (not possible with current properties)

The properties populated on the race pages right now are 3e Creature Subtype, 3e Creature Type, 3e ECL, 3e Favored Class, 3e Level Adjustment, 3e Size, and 3e Race Description as well as some entirely too specific stat mod properties. These probably need to be bot edited with Creature Subtype and Creature Type merged into the Type property (that's how it is in other places anyway, I'm not sure I like it though), Favored Class, Level Adjustment, Size, and Summary. The annoyingly specific stat mod properties can be merged into a Racial Stat Modifiers property, and then stuck on the nav table. ECL should probably be removed from the race pages it's on unless they include a monster write up. I can't think of any subcategories that would be necessary for races, and we can purge all of the LA categories that we presently have when the property is properly filled out. Am I missing anything? Any objections? - TarkisFlux 04:31, October 8, 2009 (UTC)

I can probably fill in a story for you: Way back on paleowiki, I noticed that LA 7 races were formatted differently (all 2 of them). Turns out it was an experiment to add SMW properties to all pages. Well, I took the initiative to add these properties on most races I made at the time, despite it not being implemented anywhere else. That said, the system never got the attention it needed to work, so, there are some kinks, and now those kinks need to be fixed. Definitely un-edition the properties with a bot to sanitize the ones currently implemented. Make sure the new properties are added in to the preload too. Updating races will have to be done manually probably, since there are probably a lot of uniformity differences among all the race pages. Anyways, ramblings aside. I feel ECL should stay. Several races have racial HD (and this seems to be a trend toward using racial HD, even in conjunction with LA). While it would be awesome to be able to search specifically for a race with such and such score to an ability score (and I'm not sure if that was anything planned or not), it doesn't work for races with odd things like "pick a +2 and -2 of your choice" for ability modifiers. A single property for ability scores should work fine. With all that, that pesky template at the top of races that was used for the old wiki can be removed as well. Oh, and do we need a property for size? --Ganteka Future 06:25, October 8, 2009 (UTC)

Just a note on redoing this page -- there should be one page. One. Not a page per LA -- that sort of shit should just show up in the table. Surgo 12:11, October 8, 2009 (UTC)

Absolutely. That can go in the table and be sortable and we'll be fine, it's not worth doing sub pages for them. The LA categories can then be purged as redundant and worthless. - TarkisFlux 16:51, October 8, 2009 (UTC)

Gan - I'm still not sure why you want ECL to stay as a property when the race doesn't have a monster write up in it... do you just want to show that it has some number of racial hit dice greater than 0 that may or may not match its ECL? Most of the races in the list have an ECL = LA +1 and don't offer racial hit dice, your deathly asutas does offer racial hit dice, but does so by offering racial class levels and so doesn't list an LA. I think I'd rather have just an LA +6 on something like yours, with a variant +0 and progression that isn't recorded in the properties and doesn't show up in the table except maybe in the summary, for ease of reference and clarity.

As for ability scores, we can do it like we do skills right now and just have a string property that we assign multiple values to. They will all show in the table, and you can sort by them, and when we get the full semantic Special:BrowseData up they will even be text searchable (though you could do custom tables for it already anyway, it's just more of a pain). The +2 / -2 any stat ones will just be an entry that links to the generic SRD stat page instead of a specific stat section and isn't any harder to set as the property value than anything else. In the preloads, it'll probably look like the skills do for the classes (with the exception that you need to set numbers) in that you just delete the ones you aren't using for the race. Should be pretty easy actually, just time consuming. - TarkisFlux 18:07, October 8, 2009 (UTC)

CSSification

The default SMW tables really clash with our pages. Simply overriding the color styles in our CSS would be a good start, but I would love to see these tables look like the zebra tables (for a good overall consistency). Is there any way to add a CSS class to each alternating row in a SMW table like we did with regular tables? --Andrew Arnott (talk, email) 14:54, October 8, 2009 (UTC)

Yes, just put class="d20 sortable". Sortable actually adds stripes itself, I just haven't gotten that to work yet. Also, instead of |format=table, use |format=template and |template=Table Row (thus wrapping the entire thing in {| class="sortable d20" |}Surgo 17:32, October 8, 2009 (UTC)

No more adding Zebra then... does it only stripe once, or does it update the striping on sort? If you pop over to 3.5e Prestige Classes and sort by length or minimum level you'll notice the stripes bunching up because they're still striped per the initial name sort. It's not really a big deal, but it is a bit odd looking. - TarkisFlux 17:54, October 8, 2009 (UTC)

Sortable updates the stripes after you sort, so long as you do not add Zebra. I haven't yet gotten sortable's striping to work for some reason, but it will soon -- so keep making things sortable. Surgo 18:21, October 8, 2009 (UTC)