Talk:Dire Elf (3.5e Monster)

At an initial glance, i'm loving this! a monstrous template + standard humanoid elf = Feral Archer(where'd they get those composite bows...)! but then i'm realizing, wait a second... shouldn't there be a Dire variant of All the different Elven subtypes?Snafusam (talk) 07:45, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

This way lies madness. But naturally you can be sure there probably is. :P -- Eiji-kun (talk) 08:22, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

A Review

Ok, first look and this is great! Kinda bosmer-ish, don't know if that was your inspiration. All their special qualities are fitting/great, especially the ones you specifically created. DR/cold iron means clearly "these are not fey, but almost are" and that's cool. I'm kinda surprised and confused to see elemental resistance, which I don't clearly understand why is there. Also, you gave them overall average/high score, especially mental attributes: given the description I would expect them to be a bit more brutish. They are still elves you'd say, but your lore seems to point that they are crazy, at least by normal elves standard. I don't know, care to elaborate on that? It's a very minor nitpick though. Also, 3 feats? Shouldn't be two? I'm super bad at making monsters and using HDs to give feats and whatnot, so probably I'm just confused.

I love the claws. --The bluez in the dungeon (talk) 08:58, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

So, examining the stats a bit and The bluez in the dungeon has a very nice point, the 4HD mismatches the 3CR, which would typically mean low stats and abilities, it does indeed mysteriously have a 3rd feat for having claws, why would it need the quick draw feat?. For this sample dire elf i'd give it's CR to be X, which given it's change shape ability, high intelligence(int does not = civil) and specialized weaponry, we've got a feral elf guerrilla in the jungle! watch out!Snafusam (talk) 19:10, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

I had a weird idea of a 'dire elf' from a typo. It does come off as Bosmer, doesn't it? So I ran with it: Elves are natural semi-fey things that are scary and do things like the wild hunt, so I'm like "this is an animal in a human skin". But they're also human+, so they get the whole "human perfection" thing and become scary human hunters. This ended up with something that was kinda Predator-esque. Using the pathfinder Dire template as a guideline, it has most of those properties. I boosted Int as well since they are human+ and Dire doesn't account for it (designed to be applied to animals), but instead implied I removed their humanity. So its less that they're brutish as they are amoral, alien, and brutally cunning (or is that cunningly brutal?).

CR was roughed out based on the template. If you think I'm off there, that's worth discussion. I'll mull on it. I'm not sure about CR 9 though. This thing would get destroyed by level 9 parties. A group of 3s should be able to take one on with moderate difficulty. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 02:19, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

I'll leave my two cents: the dire elf has average/high hp, manageable AC, low initiative and good saves for its CR. It has overall good attacks, especially the composite longbow, which has a 4 Strength rating and it's quite valuable (given the bonus you gave, both the bow and the rapier are +1, but are the claws too?). It's impossible to track, instead, with Scent, it tracks you: hiding is very difficult. Because of this, it can choose where and when to attack. It will choose a forested area, at dawn or dusk to capitalize its low-light vision, it surprises attack the party (assume 4 people), uses verticality (climb speed + tall trees: this is the greatest problem for PCs at 3rd level), cover (foliage) and reliant and hurtful ranged attacks. Its skills values are not too high so it cannot reliably hide forever, but neither can the PCs. If it's in danger it can run away safely, faster than the PCs, with no trace and not hindered by natural terrain. Rinse and repeat. This will be lethal for an unprepared party.

If melee combat is the chosen course of action or if it happens, its preferred method of attack will be the claws (equal to the rapier, but two hit per round). Here DR, energy resistance, land speed and wilding come into play: bonus hp, healing every round, very high speed, less damage each round, higher AC and an additional 10 hp more (diehard). In this form it will be easier for the PCs to overcome it, but still dangerous. Especially because Devour Essence comes into play: what if dire elf but something like wolf or leopard (coogar or whatever)? And even in this case the dire elf could choose to flee if in mortal peril. And all of this considering just one elf (which arguably would be heavily outnumbered by a 4-man party, unless it can use ranged combat).

So, my idea would be that this could easily be a 3 or 4 CR: my examples had tactics, a frontal combat with those hp and AC would be very dangerous for a lone dire elf. One very good thing are its energy resistances which at this level could almost nullify a blaster's damage. In fact I'm still doubtful of those, especially lore-wise. In any case I like it and it's probably ok with that CR for me--The bluez in the dungeon (talk) 07:55, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

Whoops! ya, a level 9 PC alone would solo this dire elf. Snafusam (talk) 09:10, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

I went and checked some numbers since CR was in question. Given its abilities and stats, its either a quite solid CR 4 or a weak CR 5. Its resistances, DR, evasive qualities and... intensely un-player friendly curse that there's no level-appropriate way of removing and a high DC for its CR... higher CR might be better. Definitely not a CR 3 though. --Ganteka Future (talk) 22:25, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Ran some numbers and juggled some things. DC dropped to 18, CR pumped to 4, and resistances downed to 3 (they're mostly just a representation of resistance to the elements, this puts it on part with its DR and less of a hassle for early level parties). Long curse is supposed to be a bit unfriendly, you probably aren't fighting swarms of dire elves and are more dealing with one or two, with the knowledge that these are tricksy not-fey that will curse you. I'll specify that you know what the curse is too, so it's not a mystery curse. You know it'll be "your son will eat a pear and be forever weak" or whatever fey curse you want on there. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 03:37, 25 June 2021 (UTC)