Talk:Superhero (3.5e Class)

Balance

Between UMD, full BAB, and spell access, I'd definitely say this one's wizard-level. --Ghostwheel 21:33, February 23, 2010 (UTC)

It has medium BAB (unless it's a captain) and 1 spell at a time. If he wants to pick a level appropriate spell, he has to set it on 1 round recharge and make it a full-round action to cast (unless it's an amazing, who can actually cast the same level appropriate spell every round from level 4 on), though after he has it for a level he can reduce one of those drawbacks. While that could very easily make him semi-awesome (if not an extremely one-trick pony), it's not wizard level. It's probably high rogue with good spell selection though, and low rogue otherwise. Fighter seems to be pretty strongly undervaluing it's ability to spam spells and cover other things with UMD. - TarkisFlux 00:37, February 24, 2010 (UTC)

I assumed that having a very limited set of abilities would mean that Superheroes would stay in high Fighter level, but I suppose you're right that the decent stats and skills can make up for failings in their limited magical firepower. --Foxwarrior 01:25, February 24, 2010 (UTC)

Imagine, if you would, Color Spray at will at level 3, or Glitterdust at will at level 5. I think that either would end most encounters right off the bat--isn't that one of the hallmarks of the wizard-level balance point? Heck, you could get them even lower if you modified them. I think this one needs an SGT--even at 10th level, I think he could beat most encounters with Glitterdust (and even the necromancer would have trouble against him, being unable to target him at all once he's blind). --Ghostwheel 01:32, February 24, 2010 (UTC)

Wizard level classes have the tools to shut down / avoid / render moot / 'do whatever to' challenges, of which combat is an admitedly substantial subset. Having one spell on hand, even an awesome spell like glitterdust or color spray, is only going to leave you able to shut down a subset of that subset, that being whichever subset has crappy saves against your chosen effect. Which is still really solid, hence why I suggested high rogue from my initial view of it. I'm not saying don't SGT it (though if you do you should assume the same spell chosen for all encounters since they don't get to swap except at level up), I'm just saying that being able to basically shut down a subset of combats because you have one good power and UMD is not the same as being wizard level. - TarkisFlux 01:49, February 24, 2010 (UTC)

At levels 1 and 2 the superhero is abysmally behind her companions. Her one trick isn't doing much in any fights against intelligent opponents, and it is worse than her contemporaries (if you are playing in 3.5e, this seems somewhat aimed at d20 modern, where it would be ridiculously overpowered compared to other classes), who are also knocking off a spell every round. I'd suggest default spell power of 2*spell level - 1 instead, but then you can get ridiculous things like the aforementioned color spray every round at level 1. Bard, Ranger, and Paladin spell lists list spells at lower levels than the other spell lists, which is going to kick in a big boost in power before level 10. At high levels it definitely runs into problems with Miracle, Limited Wish and Wish, though they might be a bit tricky to get into due to the school, subtype rule. There are a few other spells with similar abilities at lower levels that could be abused by casting a spell from an item.

There might be easy solutions to both problems: disallow spells that allow access to other spells in any way and adjust the spell power of spells with a save that negates, say +4, or make superpowers in general easier to save against, after all your enemies pretty much know what's coming and can be more prepared to dodge. The superhero class might also benefit from a notoriety class feature that grants a token bonus to diplomacy or intimidate, and warns the player that their opponents will know what they're up to. Their opponents can be given a knowledge (local) check to research the superhero, with information about her power's type or school being granted at DC 20. Spellcraft checks to identify the superhero's power should succeed automatically by the second time it's used. The superhero should be wary of foes with the Improved Counterspell feat. - Cedges 08:13, May 20, 2010 (UTC)

Color spray every round isn't a big deal at level 1. The problem is the first round, since after that the enemies can realize that they should stand back and spread out a bit, making Color Spray no better than a Greatsword. Numeric bonuses to saves and such on later rounds would not really improve the balance of this class: after all, your enemies are now quite likely to be aware of your limitations, and can act accordingly. I agree that I should nerf those wish things though. --Foxwarrior 19:44, May 20, 2010 (UTC)

Doctor Ability

The doctor ability to get 5 extra class skills seems basically worthless without additional skill points to spend them on. 5 extra would be overkill, and even 4 is probably high since you get to choose the skills, but 2 would be nice, and put the ability more in line with the others. - TarkisFlux 00:37, February 24, 2010 (UTC)