Talk:Fiendish Brute (3.5e Class)

OBJECTION!

Here are the results of a level 5 SGT I did on what I think is a pretty reasonable Fiendish Brute build:

THE CHARACTER

Tiefling Fiendish Brute 3/True Fiend (Baatezu) 1/Brute 1

Str 16, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 10 (yes, really)

31 hp

BAB +3

Weapons: 2 Claws +6 (1d4+3 and black adder venom and shakes) and Sting +1 melee (1d3+3 and poison)

AC 25 (+3 Dex, +7 natural, +5 armor)

Poison Sacs (Black Adder Venom (1d6 Con/1d6 Con), DC 15), Sting of the Scorpion (1d6 Con/1d6 Con, DC 15), Carrier (Shakes (1d8 Dex), DC 15), Wings of Evil

Equipment: +1 Chain Shirt, +1 greatsword

Skills: Move Silently +11, Hide +11, Spot +8, Listen +8

Fort +9, Ref +9, Will +3

Standard strategy: get near the opponent, darkness, stab stab stab.

THE RESULTS

• A huge Animated iron statue. – Probable loss.
  • There is a less than 50% chance that the statue won’t notice the Fiend; at that point, combat begins and the Fiend gets pounded by the statue, which is immune to its attacks due to hardness and Construct traits.
• A Basilisk. – Probable win
  • The Fiend has an excellent chance of winning the initial gaze confrontation, and after that it’s just a matter of using darkness and wailing on the basilisk until it dies (which will happen pretty quickly with all the poison it’s taking).
• A Large Fire Elemental. – Definite loss
  • The Fiend is immune to fire, and the elemental is immune to poison; this is just a wailing match where the Elemental is blind. And the Fiend can only deal damage on ¼ of the attacks that hit. Even after Shakes is taken into account, the Fiend has a roughly 55% chance of hitting on any given claw attack (and significantly less for the sting) for an average of 0.75 damage per attack (and an average of 0.33… damage for the tail). The elemental has a 24% chance after darkness is accounted for, but deals an average 9 damage on an attack. The Fiend also has about half the hit points of the elemental. Win to the elemental.
• A Manticore on the wing. – Probable win
  • The Fiend can fly better than the Manticore, has a somewhat better chance of hitting it than it does him, and a decent chance of hitting it with some nasty poisons. The manticore does a bit more damage. Would say this fight favors the fiend.
• A Mummy. – Definite loss
  • Unless he can light the entire room on fire, I just don’t see this going any better than the Fire Elemental, since the Fiend also has to worry about the Mummy’s full repertoire (including mummy rot) and doesn’t get the benefits of Shakes.
• A Phase Spider. – Even match
  • This is a poison vs. poison battle with readied actions. Both save on an 8, and both deal Con damage, although the phase spider deals slightly more Con damage. The spider also deals slightly more damage, and can choose its opportunities when the Fiend would be flat-footed (or wait him out). Call this even, due to the sheer ambiguity.
• A Troll. – Probable loss
  • The troll has a good Fortitude save – it only loses to the poison on a 4+, and there's a 50% chance the fiend will hit with its claws. Its chance to hit, however, is pretty low due to the Fiend's high AC; these end up being about even. DPR for the Fiend is on par with the Troll’s regeneration, so that isn't significant. Statistically, the Fiend deals about 0.7 Con damage per round, and the Troll deals 3.8 damage per round, so the long haul goes to the Troll. If the troll hits with a rend (4% chance on each round of attacks, the fiend straight loses. This goes in the troll's favor.
• A chasm. – Definite win
  • Fly speed. Win.
• A moat filled with acid. – Definite win
  • Fly speed. Win.
• A locked door behind a number of pit traps. – Definite loss
  • Seriously, if the door is made of anything sturdier than wood, there’s nothing he can do to it.
• A couple of Centaur Archers in the woods. – Definite win
  • If the archers are trying to do anything to the fiend, he can catch up to them pretty quickly (especially with Good maneuverability), and they can’t survive the resulting onslaught.
• A Howler/Allip tag team. – Definite loss
  • Even with a magic sword, this is not going to go well for the Fiend. The Allip turns him into a gibbering idiot.
• A pit filled with medium monstrous scorpions. – Definite win
  • Fly speed. Win.
• A Grimlock assault team. – Definite win
  • The Grimlocks don’t even have eyes, so darkness won’t matter. However, they’re also ridiculously susceptible to poison and disease, so they each go down in about two successful attacks and only hit on a 20. Easy win.
• A Cleric of Hextor (with his zombies) – Even match
  • Cleric probably has comparable AC, but no time to actually cure any poisons’ ability damage. If the cleric has bestow curse and chooses wisely, it can probably decrease the fiend’s poison DC drastically; that would probably allow the zombies to nom him down. On the other hand, if enough Con damage gets put on the cleric, that could be a win right there. Going to call this a tossup due to too many variables.

Definite Win: 5 Probable Win: 2 Even Match: 2 Probable Loss: 2 Definite Loss: 4

That is very solidly Rogue level. --Quantumboost 21:36, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

Didn't see the talk page entry, lemme compose a response? --Ghostwheel 21:43, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

Take your time. --Quantumboost 21:46, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

Sure, let's go with your build--but change the feats (and taking class levels Fiendish Brute 1 -> True Fiend 1 -> Fiendish Brute 3). For this purpose, we'll pick up Projectile Vomiting (3), and Wings of Evil for our fiendish feats. Our modus operandi will be to stay out of range, using Projectile Vomiting on enemies who can't reach us or carrying a bow for those who are immune to acid.

• A huge Animated iron statue - Definite win, staying out of range and acidify them.
• A basilisk - probably even match, since the basilisk can use its gaze every round. Toss-up who dies first.
• Fire elemental - Definite win. Stay out of range and blast it.
• Manticore - we can fly too, and its got a lower damage than we do. Plus our vomiting does a lot of damage. Probably win.
• Mummy - probable win, just stay out of range and vomit.
• Phase Spider - even match
• Troll - we pwn this, since we do acid damage at will, and stay out of range.
• Chasm - Definite win.
• Moat filled with acid - Definite win, especially with our acid resistance
• Locked door - vomit on the door until it collapses while flying above the pit traps. Definite win.
• Centaur archers - probable win.
• Yeah, the allip's going to kill us easily. Definite lose. Though we could always fly away.
• Pit with scorpians. Definite win.
• Grimlocks. Another definite win. Stay out of range, and blast em.
• The cleric doesn't have much in the way of stopping us, and we can stay out of range and just blast it. Probably win.

This gives us... 8 definite wins, 4 probable wins, 2 even matches, and one definite loss. I'd say that's wizard-level *shrug* --Ghostwheel 22:09, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

You have a 65% chance of dying to the mummy at the start. How does that translate into "probable win"? Surgo 22:23, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

One way could be never going close to the mummy, and switching to a ranged weapon. Or stay at the edge of the mummy's aura range, since we've got 5' more range than the mummy's aura. --Ghostwheel 22:53, April 2, 2010 (UTC)