Talk:Forsaker (3.5e Class)

IP change

Hey 50.195.136.149, when making major class changes (that is anything that isn't clarity or typo fixing) it's typically requested that you leave a note on the talk page what you did and why, or try and contact the author if he's about. I reverted it as I don't feel that Con to AC and then 2x Con to AC is a good idea. Discuss it here if you feel otherwise. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 03:44, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Discussion of Class

I like the look of this class, and am considering using at as the basis of an enemy NPC for the party in my game to encounter soon. They chose to be a caster-heavy party, so this should be a good "mini-boss" fight for them. However, I'm still relatively new to D&D (and DM'ing), so I'm hoping to get some discussion on this class going before I decide to use it.Somehownotsingle (talk) 04:38, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Certainly, glad to help, and always happy to see my things in use. How shall I assist you? -- Eiji-kun (talk) 07:02, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Well, my party doesn't really have a front-line fighter. It's a few casters and a homebrew class that basically amounts to a full BAB rogue with some good techniques (but still light armor). They're all level 9. So I thought about the Forsaker as a way to challenge them, but my biggest concern is how to do this. If I cast the anti-magic field, then they're basically stuck with melee and ranged attacks. Their attack rolls are basically between 11+d20 and 13+d20, and I was thinking about using a level 12 Forsaker (as a suitable "mini-boss fight," for 4 level 9 characters), but that's looking to be around close to 30 AC (29 as currently rolled and equipped). So all that vomiting of information to say, how do I use a Forsaker to challenge my caster-heavy party without a TPK, and what sort of AC should I aim for with the Forsaker they would face. Also, if talk pages on classes aren't appropriate venues for questions like this, I apologize; just let me know.Somehownotsingle (talk) 22:07, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

This is a perfect place for this stuff. Lemme roll up my sleeve and break out my DM experience...

Looks like their main offenses is magic and flanking. Do they focus on evocationy blasting or battlefield control and the like, as this may alter things. At level 12, a forsaker's DR will be 6/-, not impassable but possibly problematic for the rogue-type unless he's flanking (which he wants to anyway). Improved Uncanny Dodge will ruin his day though. For the casters, Runica and Magic Immunity are their big things, as well as Magebane offensively. Think of the forsaker as a golem battle, but more difficult due to the intelligence behind the "golem". Have they faced one before? Do they know how to act when magic does not avail them directly?

Now the magic immunity is not absolute. A few spells don't use SR, and they will be invaluable. The casters may need to prepare for this, so dropping hints how "Bob slew 1000 casters" or "I heard he has some kind of shield against spells" might help them prep accordingly, if they're savvy enough.

My suggestion; they have the odds stacked against them in the form of higher level and having basically the counter to their builds, so supply methods for their builds to still function, conditionally. Sneak attacks are a no go, but improved uncanny dodge shuts down if he's immbolized. Maybe something in the room, or an item he finds, will immobilize him. The casters can't fireball him, but they can fireball the rope on the chandralier above him to ruin his day. In short, make this a puzzle battle. Taylor the scene to allow an easy victory... if they are attentive and use bombs wisely items wisely. Going direct for stabbing and spells will work, but be much slower and more dangerous.

It's not advised, lest they think you're going easy on them, but depending on the personality of the villain a bit of gloating and showing off during a one-sided curbstop of a fight can sometimes help. Action economy is king, and if he's wasting any, that leaves him weaker. Finally, remember mundane things still have an effect. A giant boulder trap can'tbe antimagiced away. If they can choose the battlefield, all so much the better. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 04:35, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Okay, thanks! That really helps. The idea of a "puzzle" battle makes alot of sense. Basically, I can free totally free to yell "Screw you!" to the party and their traditional tactics, as long as I provide another path to victory that they have to figure out. --Somehownotsingle (talk) 18:46, 19 May 2013 (UTC)